Towing a 17ft/2,200lb RV trailer with a Tesla Model X; reasons why an R1S could be a better tow vehicle

[EVtowing]

Introduction:

I’m new to this forum. Have owned only Teslas for the past 10 years; Roadster, Model S, currently a 2018 Model 3 and 2017 Model X 100D which I purchased specifically to tow a Safari Condo Alto F1743 trailer. It is 17 ft long, weighs about 2,200lb fully loaded, and has been extensively modified; added 600Ah of LiFePO batteries and 735W of solar panels among other changes.

I have towed the trailer for probably over 12,000 miles. The X hitch is only rated for 3,500 lbs but the car easily handles the relatively lightweight trailer and feels stable while towing; no surprise there since the car outweighs the trailer by much more than two to one.

When towing at 55mph on a level dry road with no headwind the car gets about 2m/kW which decreases to about 1.7m/kW at 60mph. For such a large EV the X is very energy efficient, getting about 3.2m/kW at 60mph when not towing . When new, my X showed 285 rated miles at 100% charge, it now shows 264 miles fully charged (7% decrease) and has 74K miles on the odometer. A new Model X is EPA rated at 330 miles.

I’ve been following Rivian for years now and have always been impressed by their vehicles, and the coming R2 and R3 vehicles are very compelling. The R1S is almost exactly the same length and width as the Model X but has more cargo capacity because of its squarer shape; the downside is that it is not as aerodynamic and therefore is not as energy efficient. But Rivian clearly puts more effort into towing capability and related features than Tesla ever has; for Tesla towing has always been an afterthought. People towing RVs is not their target market, but when I bought my X it was the only EV available that could tow.

Rivian Towing Advantages

This list also includes some non-towing features the R1S has that I find compelling and the Model X lacks. If I have made any factual errors please correct me.

• 410 mile EPA range with the Max Pack 137kWh battery and Dual Motors
• Vehicle rear view camera shows a center line useful for guiding the hitch ball to the trailer tongue clamp
• “Trailer Profiles” setting, software calculates energy usage while towing a specific trailer and remembers it to calculate towing range
• Trailer brake control is included and is adjustable (I had to add a Tekonsha P3 brake controller to my X)
• 120V outlets in the center console and trunk and a 1500W inverter that can power the trailer or charge its batteries
• 5,000 lb towing capacity using the standard hitch (a new X is rated for 5,000 lb, but not rated for a WD hitch)
• Built in air compressor in the trunk to pump up tires
• 360 degree video view at low speed when parking
• Rear cross traffic alert
• 5 radars (and 11 cameras) can see through fog/rain/snow (Tesla has gone to cameras only, I think that may turn out to be a mistake)
• Two 60W USB-C outlets in the front that can power a laptop and charge a phone, plus 6 USB-C outlets in the rear areas

Future standard feature

• Trailer Assist: Helps with reverse maneuvers while you have a trailer attached (unclear on exactly what this will be)

Rivian Disadvantages

• Less efficient, higher energy usage compared to a Model X
• The Rivian Adaptive Cruise Control is deactivated while towing (manual cruise only) which is a big negative for me. Rivian needs to fix that; old style “dumb” cruise control is a huge step backwards. While towing the Tesla TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) can be used and is very nice to have on trips. In both vehicles while towing other driver assist features like lane centering/auto steer are not available, which is unfortunate but understandable.
• Fewer DC fast charging stations, though this is debatable now that Tesla has opened up the majority (not all, V1 Superchargers remain Tesla only) of the Supercharger network to other EVs. I know there are many commercial DC charging networks, e.g. Electrify America, but they are not nearly as reliable and easy to use as the Tesla Superchargers.
• (Specific to me) My X came with free lifetime Supercharging. Tesla stopped offering that not long after I bought my car.

Will the Rivian Max Pack Dual Motor give me significantly more towing range than my X100D?

This is a difficult question to answer but it’s a critical one for me. I have researched this forum to try to determine how the R1S Dual Motor energy usage compares to my Model X. It’s difficult because people post numbers but not for a fixed speed on a level dry road with no headwind, and of course tire size and type make a big difference as well. As near as I can tell, R1S energy usage is significantly higher than the Model X, perhaps by as much as 40%. However, there is another complicating factor in trying to compare towing range between the two vehicles; how their shape alters the air flow impacting the front of the trailer.

When towing at highway speeds the primary reason for increased energy usage is the increased aerodynamic drag of the trailer. A secondary effect is the rolling resistance of the two trailer tires; that predominates at speeds below about 35mph but is a minor factor at higher speeds. The larger frontal area of the taller R1S compared to the Model X, and its squarer rear end, may serve to more effectively channel air away from the front of the trailer, reducing the amount of additional energy the R1S uses while towing.

In other words, while the R1S baseline energy usage is higher than a Model X, when towing the R1S may show a smaller percentage increase in energy usage compared to a Tesla because of the different aerodynamics and that may result in an overall greater towing range with the R1S Dual Motor Max Pack compared to my 2017 Model X.

But there is no way to know for sure without a real world towing test with my trailer behind an R1S Dual Motor. If I get serious about replacing my Tesla with a Rivian I could ask my local Rivian showroom if that would be possible. It would be a very interesting test.

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[Redmond Chad]

Hi EVTowing (nice to see you on these forums too),

Similar story here. We have owned all the Teslas, and my wife still has an X. We tow a Safari Condo Alto A2124 (different model than yours, but on the old forums we used to get pretty similar towing efficiency numbers IIRC). We used to tow it with a 2017 X 100D, but now we tow it with my 2023 R1S (quad, large battery).

The X (even our 2017, but more so for her 2023) was indeed notably more efficient when not towing, but as you suspect the percentage hit on the R1S when towing is lower than it was when towing with the X. Overall efficiency while towing was still better in the X...but range is still better with the R1S simply because it has a larger battery.

Another advantage to the R1S over the X: it's easier to hook up, because the towing bits aren't buried so far under the car. And I like that the R1S is heavier and has a larger towing capacity; the X's was sufficient, but now I don't feel bad about not having a weight-distributing hitch.

We've been getting about 1.5 mi/kWh towing the A2124 with the R1S (we got about 1.75 towing with the X). That's with speeds generally around 60mph. Another thread you might find useful is HERE.

 

[EVtowing]

Hi, thanks for your post!

Yes, as near as I have been able to determine towing the Alto F1743 and the A2124 seem to produce about the same energy penalty.

now we tow it with my 2023 R1S (quad, large battery)

Just so I’m clear, you have the “Large” battery, not the “Max Pack”? I assume it was not available when you ordered your R1S.

If your experience is that your R1S Large battery Quad Motor has a greater towing range than your X (which has the same specs as mine) than I would think the R1S Dual Motor Max Pack would provide an even greater towing range.

When you are towing do you miss using TACC?

Another advantage to the R1S over the X: it's easier to hook up, because the towing bits aren't buried so far under the car.

I thought that might be the case. One of many indications that Tesla does not understand towing is the position of the electrical connector and safety chain clips on the X; they are a pain to get to.

We've been getting about 1.5 mi/kWh towing the A2124 with the R1S. That's with speeds generally around 60mph

Good to know. And what is your energy usage number when not towing at 60mph? Of course you likely go considerably faster when not towing so maybe you don’t have that number. I’m just trying to quantify what your increased energy requirements are when towing compared to not towing.

Thanks!

 

[Redmond Chad]

Just so I’m clear, you have the “Large” battery, not the “Max Pack”? I assume it was not available when you ordered your R1S.

Correct. I believe the Max Pack has about 10 more kWh usable (which is kind of disappointing given the price). The range ratings make it look like more than that, but I think they use different adjustment figures for the various packs to make the Max Pack look better.

After towing a few times, my R1S generally says that my estimated range while towing should be just about 200 miles. That matches my own calculations and experience pretty well.

While towing with our 2017 X, our efficiency was about 16% better than it is with the R1S. But the R1S' usable energy capacity is quite a bit more than the X's.

When you are towing do you miss using TACC?

A little. It's not a big deal to me, but then we've barely gone more than 100 miles at a time while towing. It would probably matter more if we went further between stops.

Good to know. And what is your energy usage number when not towing at 60mph? Of course you likely go considerably faster when not towing so maybe you don’t have that number.

You are right, I don't have 60mph non-towing efficiency numbers. But around 70mph I once got about 2.1 mi/kWh. (That was a warm start at speed - it was just a section of a larger trip - so is probably overstating the average efficiency a bit).

 

[EVtowing]

I believe the Max Pack has about 10 more kWh usable (which is kind of disappointing given the price). The range ratings make it look like more than that, but I think they use different adjustment figures for the various packs to make the Max Pack look better.

Currently the Rivian website is showing that the Dual Motor Large range estimate is 531km/332m and the Dual Motor Max is 660km/412m, which is a big enough difference for me to go with the latter. What leads you to believe that Rivian is using a “different adjustment” to make the Max look more impressive than it really is? I would be very disappointed in the company if they are doing that.

You are right, I don't have 60mph non-towing efficiency numbers. But around 70mph I once got about 2.1 mi/kWh.

Thanks, then my guess is that at 60mph, not towing, you would get about 2.6m/kWh. And you said when towing at 60mph you get about 1.5.

Bottom line to me is that if I really want to know the energy usage of an R1S Dual Motor while towing my trailer, I need to do a real life test with those two vehicles.

 

[Redmond Chad]

Sorry, that may be confusing...my R1S is Gen 1, so I was comparing a Gen 1 Large (131 usable) to a Gen 1 Max (141 usable). The difference between the two is much larger in Gen 2 - however, that is almost entirely because they shrank the size of the Large pack. The new Max only gained 0.5 kWh.

Threads like THIS have capacities listed. (I didn't follow to see where the numbers came from).

 

[Zoomit]

If I have made any factual errors please correct me.

• 5,000 lb towing capacity using the standard hitch (a new X is rated for 5,000 lb, but not rated for a WD hitch)

R1S's have a 7,700 lb tow rating and a 810 lb hitch weight rating.

Another R1 advantage is the front charge port location, which allows more opportunity for DC fast charging without disconnecting the trailer.

Another R1 disadvantage is the charging curve, especially in terms of C-rate. The R1 charges slower and is more susceptical to thermal derate while charging than the Model X.

The larger frontal area of the taller R1S compared to the Model X, and its squarer rear end, may serve to more effectively channel air away from the front of the trailer, reducing the amount of additional energy the R1S uses while towing.

In other words, while the R1S baseline energy usage is higher than a Model X, when towing the R1S may show a smaller percentage increase in energy usage compared to a Tesla because of the different aerodynamics and that may result in an overall greater towing range with the R1S Dual Motor Max Pack compared to my 2017 Model X.

This is true. The R1S creates a larger wake, due to it's size and shape, which reduces the impact that the trailer has on the combined vehicle aero drag. While I can't quantify the difference, the physics is clearly in favor of the R1S being impacted less by any trailer as compared to a Model X.

We can compare the vehicle's highway efficiency without a trailer, using the test dynometer coefficients that the OEMs provide in the respective EPA application documents. I have the most recent Model X data but it would only be a more pronounced difference with a degraded 2017 MX 100D.

The coefficients are in these documents: R1S, Model X.

I'll spare some of the math details but it works out as:

2025 Gen 2 R1S Dual Motor Max Pack, 22" wheels
- Road Load kW @ 60 mph: 17.2 kW
- Usable battery: 142 kWh

2024 Model X AWD, 20" wheels
- Road Load kW @ 60 mph: 14.0 kW
- Usable battery: 97.7 kWh

So the R1S requires 23% more power to maintain 60 mph but it has a 45% larger battery. This means the R1S will be able to go about 18% further at 60 mph [1.45/1.23=1.18] than a current Model X AWD. Again this data is without a trailer. Adding a trailer will hurt the Model X's range moreso than the R1S, increasing the percentage difference.

Caveat: This kind of comparison doesn't account for differences in speed-indepentent power loads, like HVAC or computers, but those differences between these vehicles should be minor.

In short, I wouldn't be surprised if a R1S Dual Max can tow an F1743 as much as 30%, maybe even 40%, further than a Model X AWD.

But whether that translates to quicker trips is dependent on DCFC station access and power level as well as ambient temperature. The Model X will recharge at a higher C-rate and be more resilient in hot conditions...but need to regain 30-40% more energy.

For example, if the R1S used 60% SOC between charging stops, starting at 80% and recharging at 20% SOC, it would take about 37 minutes to recharge. (Data from Out of Spec charging test and assuming Max pack c-rate is same as Gen1 Large pack.) If the Model X used the same charging locations it might use 35% more of it's battery to get there (not SOC but relative usage) and so it might need to recharge 81% SOC [0.6*1.35=0.81]. Recharging the Model X from 10% to 91% SOC is about 39 minutes (Data from Out of Spec charging test for a Model S Plaid, which is the same battery.)

So in that example of similarly spaced charge stations, the recharge times are similar, but the R1 provides significantly more range flexibility when pulling a trailer.

 

[silkyjohnson]

I felt like my X was going to break or I’d need another door adjustment every time I hit a bump

 

[SwampNut]

I went from a Tesla 3 to an R1T because we needed a truck. There is NO chance whatsoever that I'd ever pick a Rivian over a Tesla otherwise. You lose so much. You gain a little. What I miss most is Autopilot, which I used 98% of the time. Driver+ refuses to run at all even on marked but apparently not major enough highways, such as Phoenix to Vegas. So damn stupid. And all around, the software in the Rivian is a decade behind Tesla and it shows often. The cameras do suck, and the lane change camera is in a less-good position, but works ok. The backup camera is a huge pain for trailer hookup, but fine for everyday use.

These are rough notes I've made on the differences.

Missing in comparison to Tesla:





Autopilot on streets and nearly anywhere.


Not charging notification when at home and forget.


Notify if doors/trunk/etc open too long.


Much better air filtration no dust.


Texting via Bluetooth.


Cruise auto set to limit +X.


Open doors with button.


Automatic turn signal management.


Automatic calendar appointment routing.


Water bottle holders in doors.


AC vents are just better, more comfortable.


No Apple Watch app.


EVSE dongles for other plugs.








Tesla is missing:


Charger ratings and issues.


iPhone Live Activity on lock screen with charger data.


Rivian is much quieter.


Rivian air conditioner has floor vents, and also automatically remembers to always turn on the rear seat cooling.

 

[SwampNut]

Oh, and about towing and charging. On some routes, there are no good charger options at all. Going from Phoenix to Tucson with our travel trailer, not very far, was an absolute disasters. You can't use those Superchargers because they are too old. One EA station was DEAD all around. I had to backtrack to one working station that was then super slow. Others were a variety of slow and screwy, with many attempts required to start. Another just disconnected randomly.

Definitely not worth buying unless you need a truck. Playing Rivian Roulette with chargers is not fun at all.

 

[EVtowing]

Missing in comparison to Tesla:

Thanks for your comments; you noted some things I had missed or was not aware of.

My purpose with this thread is to compare and contrast the towing capabilities of the Model X vs the R1S (note my thread title) and I’d like to keep the focus on that rather than have it turn into a general Tesla vs Rivian thread, a topic which I’m sure has been discussed many times in other subforums here. Thanks again.

 

[SwampNut]

a topic which I’m sure has been discussed many times in other subforums here.

Not really, I couldn't find much of this info when I was shopping, and it would have influenced my decision to change brands.

But as to towing, physically, this truck tows better than anything I've ever towed with; 3/4 ton diesels, 1 ton duallies, everything. But losing adaptive cruise is so incredibly stupid, and I'm working on a way to bypass that and make the truck think I'm not towing. I've never towed with an X, and only towed small stuff with my 3. Which still let me use AP.

Another fact that I couldn't readily find before buying.

 

[EVtowing]

Oh, and about towing and charging. On some routes, there are no good charger options at all. Going from Phoenix to Tucson with our travel trailer, not very far, was an absolute disasters. You can't use those Superchargers because they are too old. One EA station was DEAD all around. I had to backtrack to one working station that was then super slow. Others were a variety of slow and screwy, with many attempts required to start. Another just disconnected randomly.

Thanks for contributing your personal experiences towards one of the points I made in my original post, I said: “Fewer DC fast charging stations, though this is debatable now that Tesla has opened up the majority (not all, V1 Superchargers remain Tesla only) of the Supercharger network to other EVs. I know there are many commercial DC charging networks, e.g. Electrify America, but they are not nearly as reliable and easy to use as the Tesla Superchargers.”

I do expect that as Tesla continues to expand the Supercharger network and the percentage of V1 stations diminishes, that Supercharging a Rivian will become a more positive experience.

Definitely not worth buying unless you need a truck.

I’m not considering the R1T at all as I have no use for a truck. But I remain interested in the R1S as a better tow vehicle than my Model X.

 

[EVtowing]

I've never towed with an X, and only towed small stuff with my 3. Which still let me use AP.

Pretty sure that with any Tesla, when hitched up and electrically connected to what is being towed, “AP” (Auto Pilot) is disabled.

TACC is not disabled.

Just to be clear to non-Tesla owners reading this, TACC is not the same thing as AP. Thanks.

 

[SwampNut]

Pretty sure that with any Tesla, when hitched up and electrically connected to what is being towed, “AP” (Auto Pilot) is disabled.

TACC is not disabled.

Just to be clear to non-Tesla owners reading this, TACC is not the same thing as AP. Thanks.

Yes, if you use the Tesla tow package, it disables AP. I wired it myself using third party products so it could not disable anything. Same process for the Rivian is WAY harder.

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