Interesting, just published Rolling Stone article about the Tesla Cybertruck...

[RivianRunner]

“Lars said…”

Yes, considering that he's the lead engineer, I suspect he knows what makes it work.

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[RivianPioneer]

All of this is speculative until we see an actual published report from a respected agency like the IIHS. The tweet from the Center for Auto Safety is irresponsible. Unless they have access to crash test data that the rest of us do not, they cannot say with any certainty that this truck will perform poorly on crash tests.

After all, if we could tell which vehicle would fare well in a crash simply by looking at one, we wouldn't need to crash-test them at all. Crash testing is a significant expense for the manufacturer, so if crash testing is regularly done, we can safely assume there's a reason for that.

I don't care for these swipes at the cybertruck because they are just making things up without data to back them up. That's wrong, and they lose credibility by doing that. I long for the days when news organizations didn't open their fucking traps until they had verified the information they were spreading. This sensationalist bullshit and inflammatory content to drive views is sickening, and I'm over it. I say this as someone who thinks the Cybertruck is synonymous with a dumpster.

It is what it is. Tesla has fans and it has people who hate the brand because they have personalized their issues with Musk and have transferred those negative feelings to all things Musk, including Tesla. This so called Center for Auto Safety, clearly is nothing of the sort - its comments are totally unprofessional, and a clear indication that their “review” is an emotional response to Elon Musk rather than an objective look at the Cybertruck.

 

[RivianPioneer]

Not my opinion, but the opinion of people who's opinion actually carries weight.

Dec 8 (Reuters) - The angular design of Tesla's (TSLA.O) Cybertruck has safety experts concerned the electric pickup truck's stiff stainless-steel exoskeleton could hurt pedestrians and cyclists and damage other vehicles on roads.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cybertrucks-stiff-structure-sharp-design-raise-safety-concerns-experts-2023-12-08/#:~:text=Dec 8 (Reuters) - The,damage other vehicles on roads.

“could hurt pedestrians” - in other words, they have no clue what issues, may, or may not exist, but that is not stopping them from speculating rather than providing accurate, actual information

 

[COdogman]

Yes, considering that he's the lead engineer, I suspect he knows what makes it work.

Yet is still doesn’t mean what you or he claims it means.

”underlying structures” = frame

“Exoskeleton“ = exterior panels

”structural adhesives” = glue

 

[SASSquatch]

“could hurt pedestrians” - in other words, they have no clue what issues, may, or may not exist, but that is not stopping them from speculating rather than providing accurate, actual information

RIght. We need lots of dead people with disfigured arms and legs before we can draw any conclusions about how bad this will be for pedestrians.

There is no other way to predict severity of impact, like in the crash test videos that Tesla posted that have alarmed safety experts.

 

[VSG]

According to the lead of vehicle engineering at Tesla, Lars Moravy, the exoskeleton is a composite structure made up of not only the thick, high-strength skin, but also the underlying structures like the boron steel passenger safety cage, the aluminum gigacastings, etc. These structural elements are bonded and bolted together as one unitized exoskeleton that increases strenth and rigidity while reducing overall weight. Lars said the large gigacastings are surprisingly ductile and need the stiffening of the stainless panels for added rigidity.

Military airframes also have a stressed skin on the underlying metal framework so that's another good example of an exoskeleton design that saves weight.

All the noise claiming the Cybertruck is not an exoskeleton is simply a lame attempt to frame Tesla as having nothing special. But the specs and weight don't lie.

There is a huge difference between having the exterior panels that provide some structural support and being an exoskeleton.

Plywood sheathing on a wood framed house provides some structural support - it keeps the 2x4's that form the framing from collapsing diagonally. And it is surprisingly effective at doing that for such a thin shell. But no sane person would call a normal wood framed house an "exoskeleton" because the entire structure relies on interior walls ("structural walls") as well as trusses and cross-members and all sorts of other tricks to hold it together. If you want to talk exoskeleton, a pole barn would be a much better example.

An "underlying steel passenger safety cage" makes it NOT an exoskeleton, BY DEFINITION. I pity the lead engineer who has to say ridiculous things because his boss will fire him if he doesn't toe the party line.

And your continued strategy of trying to portray anyone who calls out Tesla as "lame" is itself "lame". I can appreciate what Musk has done, and I can appreciate what Tesla has done, without buying what they say hook, line, and sinker. Especially when it is bullshit.

Believing 100% in what they say, and defending that 100%, despite common sense and evidence, seems more like a cult thing rather than someone using critical thinking.

 

[RivianRunner]

Yet is still doesn’t mean what you or he claims it means.

”underlying structures” = frame

“Exoskeleton“ = exterior panels

”structural adhesives” = glue

Exoskeletons ARE frames. In this case it's a composite frame. Lars knows what he's talking about, you are just an uninformed commoner in the peanut gallery, throwing peanut shells while mumbling how it's not what the masters claim it is.

I'm going with the professionals on this one.

 

[RivianRunner]

RIght. We need lots of dead people with disfigured arms and legs before we can draw any conclusions about how bad this will be for pedestrians.

That's ridiculous, if you could only see how alarmist and silly it makes you.

Yes, trucks hurt when they hit you. No, a Dodge Ram with its tall, vertical front end is not better, it's like being hit by a wall. I would rather be deflected by an inclined plane.

This is so much noise over nothing. A big nothingburger.

Next thing you know, people will claim that bumpers are too hard and unyielding. Yes, the same bumpers that must pass federal safety standards for being able to handle a 5-mph impact with an immoveable object without damage.

 

[jebinc]

There is a huge difference between having the exterior panels that provide some structural support and being an exoskeleton.

Plywood sheathing on a wood framed house provides some structural support - it keeps the 2x4's that form the framing from collapsing diagonally. And it is surprisingly effective at doing that for such a thin shell. But no sane person would call a normal wood framed house an "exoskeleton" because the entire structure relies on interior walls ("structural walls") as well as trusses and cross-members and all sorts of other tricks to hold it together. If you want to talk exoskeleton, a pole barn would be a much better example.

An "underlying steel passenger safety cage" makes it NOT an exoskeleton, BY DEFINITION. I pity the lead engineer who has to say ridiculous things because his boss will fire him if he doesn't toe the party line.

And your continued strategy of trying to portray anyone who calls out Tesla as "lame" is itself "lame". I can appreciate what Musk has done, and I can appreciate what Tesla has done, without buying what they say hook, line, and sinker. Especially when it is bullshit.

Believing 100% in what they say, and defending that 100%, despite common sense and evidence, seems more like a cult thing rather than someone using critical thinking.

But the insane would, and some may frequent this forum! ?

 

[Zoidz]

According to the lead of vehicle engineering at Tesla, Lars Moravy, the exoskeleton is a composite structure made up of not only the thick, high-strength skin, but also the underlying structures like the boron steel passenger safety cage, the aluminum gigacastings, etc. These structural elements are bonded and bolted together as one unitized exoskeleton that increases strenth and rigidity while reducing overall weight. Lars said the large gigacastings are surprisingly ductile and need the stiffening of the stainless panels for added rigidity.

Military airframes also have a stressed skin on the underlying metal framework so that's another good example of an exoskeleton design that saves weight.

All the noise claiming the Cybertruck is not an exoskeleton is simply a lame attempt to frame Tesla as having nothing special. But the specs and weight don't lie.

Outside of Tesla, industry experts, professionals and even Telsa fans are all saying it is not an exoskeleton. I'll provide two examples, there are plenty others, I'm not going to waste my time linking to them all. Musk has chosen to take a well defined engineering concept and redefine it to suit his needs. An exoskeleton by classic definition provides critical support, such as a lobster or crab.

The Tesla patent even indicates that Tesla has unilaterally chosen to redfine the term exoskeleton. In the patent, they say it is an exoskeleton, but also say it provides NO SUPPORT. Exoskeletons provide support. You can claim almost anything in a patent, it does not mean it is true or possible. People have patented perpetual motion machines.

Drink the KoolAid if you like, the rest of the world sees through P.T. Musk's smoke and mirrors.

Tesla Patent:
A vehicle having an exoskeleton exterior panel that provides crash resistance is described. The exterior panel may be formed from a monolithic metal sheet and attached to an exterior portion of the vehicle frame, and the exterior panel does not comprise an additional support structure.

Gustavo Ruffo
"An exoskeleton pickup truck would have "the stress moved to the outside skin." Several people believed that promise – myself included. I interviewed stressed-skin structure specialists and engineers. Everybody was excited by the perspective of a truck that saved weight and still delivered everything a body-on-frame competitor did."

"They were enough for Cory Steuben, from Munro Live, to clarify that the Cybertruck does not have an exoskeleton. The engineer candidly shared in an interview that we are in front of a unibody structure. In other words, it "will be more like a Honda Ridgeline" or "a big old Model Y."

Tesla Motors Club

 

[jebinc]

Outside of Tesla, industry experts and even Telsa fans are all saying it is not an exoskeleton. I'll provide two examples, there are plenty others, I'm not going to waste my time linking to them all. Musk has chosen to take a well define engineer concept and redefine it to suit his needs. An exoskeleton by classic definition provide critical support, such as a lobster or crab.

The Tesla patent even indicates that Tesla has unilaterally chosen to redfine the term exoskeleton. In the patent, they say it is an exoskeleton, but also say it provides NO SUPPORT. Exoskeletons provide support. You can claim almost anything in a patent, it does not mean it is true or possible. People have patented perpetual motion machines.

Drink the KoolAid if you like, the rest of the world sees through P.T. Musk's smoke and mirrors.

Tesla Patent:
A vehicle having an exoskeleton exterior panel that provides crash resistance is described. The exterior panel may be formed from a monolithic metal sheet and attached to an exterior portion of the vehicle frame, and the exterior panel does not comprise an additional support structure.

Gustavo Ruffo
"An exoskeleton pickup truck would have "the stress moved to the outside skin." Several people believed that promise – myself included. I interviewed stressed-skin structure specialists and engineers. Everybody was excited by the perspective of a truck that saved weight and still delivered everything a body-on-frame competitor did."

"They were enough for Cory Steuben, from Munro Live, to clarify that the Cybertruck does not have an exoskeleton. The engineer candidly shared in an interview that we are in front of a unibody structure. In other words, it "will be more like a Honda Ridgeline" or "a big old Model Y."

Tesla Motors Club

Just more intentional misleading marketing by Tesla and the Great Charlatan that is its leader. Same for the FSD (Full Self Driving) nonsense. Just more of a Charlatan doing charlatan things…..

 

[RivianRunner]

There is a huge difference between having the exterior panels that provide some structural support and being an exoskeleton.

Plywood sheathing on a wood framed house provides some structural support - it keeps the 2x4's that form the framing from collapsing diagonally. And it is surprisingly effective at doing that for such a thin shell. But no sane person would call a normal wood framed house an "exoskeleton" because the entire structure relies on interior walls ("structural walls") as well as trusses and cross-members and all sorts of other tricks to hold it together. If you want to talk exoskeleton, a pole barn would be a much better example.

An "underlying steel passenger safety cage" makes it NOT an exoskeleton, BY DEFINITION. I pity the lead engineer who has to say ridiculous things because his boss will fire him if he doesn't toe the party line.

And your continued strategy of trying to portray anyone who calls out Tesla as "lame" is itself "lame". I can appreciate what Musk has done, and I can appreciate what Tesla has done, without buying what they say hook, line, and sinker. Especially when it is bullshit.

Believing 100% in what they say, and defending that 100%, despite common sense and evidence, seems more like a cult thing rather than someone using critical thinking.

The word exoskeleton doesn't have a highly restrictive definition. If the engineers designed an exoskeleton, then it's an exoskeleton. An F-150 is not.

 

[VSG]

So, your argument boils down to "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"?

Sure, that went over well the first time ...

 

[COdogman]

Exoskeletons ARE frames. In this case it's a composite frame. Lars knows what he's talking about, you are just an uninformed commoner in the peanut gallery, throwing peanut shells while mumbling how it's not what the masters claim it is.

I'm going with the professionals on this one.

Yes, I am a “commoner” just like you. And the only difference between us is you are especially susceptible to Tesla marketing words.

Ridgeline frame:

Cybertruck frame:

So they have thicker body panels made of stainless steel that allows Tesla to save on paint and forces their customers to either drive a refrigerator or spend $12000 on a wrap that won’t last more than 3 years.

Very revolutionary.

 

[COdogman]

The word exoskeleton doesn't have a highly restrictive definition. If the engineers designed an exoskeleton, then it's an exoskeleton. An F-150 is not.

So your best defense is they can call anything they want an ”exoskeleton”?

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