CyberTruck is more than Stainless Steel...Tesla excels at Engineering in so many ways.

[DuoRivians]

So they throw some PPF film on the glass from the factory, ok.



Given Teslas pension for fast and loose software, steer by wire with them terrifies me. Lexus and airplanes? No fear.

I don’t think cars should have steer by wire. I don’t see an upside. Airplanes have them because there are so many real time variables to consider, and 3 degrees of freedom the plane can move at any time.

Cars? You have pedals for one degree of freedom (ie stop, go), and steering (ie left, right) for the other. (Cars don’t fly last time I’ve checked).

So, introducing steer by wire just to control one degree of freedom (ie left or right), when there really no environmental variables to consider too, seems like a “cool” solution looking for a problem

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[Supratachophobia]

I don’t think cars should have steer by wire. I don’t see an upside. Airplanes have them because there are so many real time variables to consider, and 3 degrees of freedom the plane can move at any time.

Cars? You have pedals for one degree of freedom (ie stop, go), and steering (ie left, right) for the other. (Cars don’t fly last time I’ve checked).

So, introducing steer by wire just to control one degree of freedom (ie left or right), when there really no environmental variables to consider too, seems like a “cool” solution looking for a problem

I would agree that we can't see any benefit. But if someone like Toyota is looking at it, I have to wonder what I'm not seeing. They generally don't introduce unnecessarily complex solutions to problems unless they have to. They like to keep things simple.

With airplanes, completely different story. The 3 degrees of movement is one thing. But the sheer engineering to move such a large piece of equipment just isn't feasible. To have a system with the right mechanical advantage would be far outweighed by cost/weight/responsiveness.

Regardless, I like mechanical steering even if it means I lose some frunk space. Oh wait, the Cybertruck didn't give us that. In fact, the reduced crumple zone looks like it's quite the jarring ride for passengers in an accident.....

 

[DuoRivians]

I would agree that we can't see any benefit. But if someone like Toyota is looking at it, I have to wonder what I'm not seeing. They generally don't introduce unnecessarily complex solutions to problems unless they have to. They like to keep things simple.

With airplanes, completely different story. The 3 degrees of movement is one thing. But the sheer engineering to move such a large piece of equipment just isn't feasible. To have a system with the right mechanical advantage would be far outweighed by cost/weight/responsiveness.

Regardless, I like mechanical steering even if it means I lose some frunk space. Oh wait, the Cybertruck didn't give us that. In fact, the reduced crumple zone looks like it's quite the jarring ride for passengers in an accident.....

When I read about it in cars, the common theme why was cost savings. Fewer parts to manufacture and install.

 

[Supratachophobia]

When I read about it in cars, the common theme why was cost savings. Fewer parts to manufacture and install.

Well, I mean you could save cost in a lot of areas by sacrificing safety. Again, I think we are in agreement, i just don't see the benefit of removing such a reliable, safety-biased, component like mechanically linked steering.

 

[SoCal Rob]

What specifically about it is an “engineering marvel”?

Why does it have 30% less range for 30% much more pricing than was promoted originally?

Unless of course you want to spring for a $16,000 “range extender” that needs to be permanently installed in the bed, which also happens to be where your spare tire needs to sit Bye bye cargo space…

Why did it go from bragging about having steel balls thrown at the windows to a softball being barely thrown at it ?

It was promoted as being able to cross “seas that aren’t too choppy”. Where was that yesterday?

Can it actually off road on the types of trails other trucks tackle? Instead of videos of it towing a Porsche 911 while “racing” the slowest 911 or a stupid tractor pull competition maybe show people something real?

You don’t know anything about crash ratings or real world range or charging info. So what exactly makes it a “marvel”? It’s entirely underwhelming compared to what was promised.

I’m glad there are more options for EV buyers, but this belief by Tesla fans that everything Elon does is years ahead of everyone else is just laughable at this point. He promised one thing and is delivering something (4 years later) not even close to it. It’s another EV truck. Nothing about it is revolutionary other than how weird it looks.

That range extender reminds me of the battery which took up space in the trunk of my Ford Fusion Energi (PHEV)

It’s one thing to have such an inelegant solution on a vehicle based on an ICE platform, but pretty sad on the CT. Especially since it seems like they could have made the under-bed storage space a removable module which could be replaced with a battery pack by an SC. Of course I don’t know all the limitations, but on the face of it the decisions made seem odd to me.

 

[Supratachophobia]

That range extender reminds me of the battery which took up space in the trunk of my Ford Fusion Energi (PHEV)

It’s one thing to have such an inelegant solution on a vehicle based on an ICE platform, but pretty sad on the CT. Especially since it seems like they could have made the under-bed storage space a removable module which could be replaced with a battery pack by an SC. Of course I don’t know all the limitations, but on the face of it the decisions made seem odd to me.

Maybe over axle vs. between axle weight? Or they had some type of form factor they liked? I mean, it looks like they just slapped two powerwalls together......

 

[HaveBlue]

Actually rivian has a patent on a range extender for the r1t. It looks like one of those utility bed boxes. Honestly I think more of the CT than i did before. Wouldn't mind 800v. Those panels are tough. Don't the rivian ones dent if push in the wrong spot with your hand while closing the frunk or tailgate? It's fast! Wow I thought the qm was too much considering 112mph limiter that hobbles it but this is silly.

All manufacturers lie; even rivian. They quote the price of the base vehicle with the specs of top of the line. Typical.

 

[usofrob]

I think the benefit of drive by wire is realized in the CT. It has variable rate steering, and it has a separate steering for the rear. I really like the idea of variable rate steering. You could have like 70% of the steering relate to the max steering possible at that speed. Like if you are going 45 mph, you can only steer so much before you reach peak later g-forces. It would take some mental remapping, but it seems like you could get used to it. It seems like Tesla is doing something like this.

All that said, I don't generally want drive by wire in any of the vehicles I drive for fun, as it would lose any possible steering feel. But, Tesla doesn't seem to care about steering feel. I think Rivian does at least some.

 

[sac602]

Just because I own a Rivian, am I supposed to automatically hate all other competitors? I acutally like the Hummer EV, Cybertruck, RAM, (not the Lightening), but that does not mean I need to buy one or argue that the Rivian is the best thing on earth.

Seems like so many people here have to hate / justify their Rivain by bashing everything else. If a Cybertruck pulls a 2.8 0-60 against my 3.2, ok; you win! good job. Who cares. Let them like their car and dont be bunch of haters.

 

[Throwdown]

48v System - TBD on actual value to the customer. It saves Tesla money, but I don't give two shits about that, they obviously didn't pass along the savings

Steer by wire - TBD again. Steering predictability is an important thing in a quick reaction situation. This might help, or might hurt. Not sure its the ground breaking feature people keep talking it up to be.

Battery cells made in house ... umm i don't care where they make them. Do they charge better/faster? No? Ok, so another cost savings that wasn't passed along to the consumer

Bigger than the R1T but lighter - ok slight benefit, but even though its bigger it has less usable day to day space

More torsional ridigity than a 911 - That was an Elon quote so I'll wait until an independent 3rd party verifies. Its the type of BS that he likes to make up some weird fanboys can lock on to it, but no one else really cares enough about it to really test it.

Faster than R1T with same horsepower - well its lighter so yea ... And its marginally faster. Everything shown so far has * next to it, so yet again .. will wait for side by sides by truly independent 3rd parties (no .. people that were hand selected to make release videos aren't independent 3rd parties)

Side view mirrors can be removed - But why? I need side mirrors, so why do i want to remove them. I can also remove the hood of the Rivian and I'm sure I can drive it just fine. But it gives the same amount of benefit as removing the mirrors

My list was not for customer savings, my list was a list requested by another user showing how it was a feat of engineering vs ?????? I assume other evs/ev trucks/ vehicles in general.
To me I see it as a huge win for the auto industry because just like now(because of tesla) all the legacy manufacturers are finally outputting decent evs, this forces them to up the ante, or at least consider it.
Not a fan boy for them, never owned one, likely never will I've just been in the automotive business for 25 years and it's refreshing to see change instead of the typical yearly marginal gains from manufacturers of the past

 

[Stickboy46]

(Cars don’t fly last time I’ve checked).

Have enough to drink before getting behind the wheel .. they definitely can...

 

[Throwdown]

You're talking about Rivian here, right?
Because "built one in short order" can't mean the CT.

4 years from reveal to delivered to customer from a company that has never made a truck not fast enough? The r1t was unveiled in 2017 and deliveries started in 2021 and it used already developed 2170 cells and a typical frame on body construction...
Please, I OWN A R1T AND LOVE IT thinking what tesla did is impressive shouldn't draw such negativity

 

[COdogman]

That range extender reminds me of the battery which took up space in the trunk of my Ford Fusion Energi (PHEV)

It’s one thing to have such an inelegant solution on a vehicle based on an ICE platform, but pretty sad on the CT. Especially since it seems like they could have made the under-bed storage space a removable module which could be replaced with a battery pack by an SC. Of course I don’t know all the limitations, but on the face of it the decisions made seem odd to me.

Yeah, it totally makes sense in a converted ICE vehicle. I don’t think anyone would be surprised to find that.

Whenever I see something like the range extender, spare tire storage (or lack of), or the windshield wiper, the first thing I think of is it looks like an afterthought. Either they had other plans and they didn’t work out so they settled on this, or they had a plan and saw what the competition was doing but it was too late to go back to the drawing board.

Either way it’s not good when you oversell the truck for years and then release something with several compromises and significantly higher prices. Elon is going to Elon….

 

[Robin]

Tesla is also a silo - his name is Elon and those “unrestrained” engineers tried hard to talk him out of making this truck the way he wanted it. But Elon always gets what he wants, so here you are - his Blade Runner/ Cyberpunk 2077 fever dream EV.

??

 

[VSG]

4 years from reveal to delivered to customer from a company that has never made a truck not fast enough? The r1t was unveiled in 2017 and deliveries started in 2021 and it used already developed 2170 cells and a typical frame on body construction...
Please, I OWN A R1T AND LOVE IT thinking what tesla did is impressive shouldn't draw such negativity

Rivian was unveiled in late 2018, not 2017. As many like to repeatedly point out in this forum, Rivian is not Tesla. So why do you find it impressive that Tesla took longer to do something that Rivian did two years ago? And why do you act like Tesla invented the electric truck, rather than just being fifth (? or sixth?) in line to (almost) deliver one.

Here's what you said:

You missed in your book where a company who never made a truck made and built one in short order that has better specs as a truck than anything else out there.

You're talking about Rivian here, right?
Because "built one in short order" can't mean the CT.

I replied to your statement because you seem oblivious to the fact that what you're praising Tesla for applies 100% to Rivian. And Rivian did it two years ago, so it's really not that impressive that Tesla has also done it. I'm not trash talking Tesla, I'm talking about how impressive RIVIAN is by comparison. On a RIVIAN forum.

Rivian never made a truck before either. Never made a CAR before, unlike Tesla. Never even made a spoon before, but despite all that it managed the amazing accomplishment of beating all the established automobile companies (including Tesla) to market with an electric truck. While all along many other companies trying to do the same thing crashed and burned.

Tesla tried hard to undermine Rivian by announcing the Cybertruck back in 2019 as being half the price, with almost twice the range, and shipping at the same time or even a little before the R1T. Leading a lot of people to decide to wait for the CT as Tesla makes superior products ... and they have paid their dues and have really learned manufacturing ... and can make a million trucks a year ... and Rivian doesn't know what they're getting themselves into with "manufacturing hell" ... and Rivian will never be able to compete with Tesla ... and Rivian will be bankrupt in two years. Blah blah blah. To be clear, Tesla with all its expertise KNEW when they announced the CT that they weren't going to shipping the CT in 2020. They weren't even close at that time. It was deliberate FUD to undermine a competitor.

And Ford as well announced an electric truck that was going to ship right around the same time as the R1T - there was a lot of speculation for a year about which one would actually ship first. The overwhelming consensus (simply read these forums) was that Ford may be slower out the gate but once it got moving it would be able to steamroll Rivian and crush them and underprice them and Rivian would be bankrupt in two years. And while this was a more reasonable expectation than relying on Tesla's statements about the CT, this didn't happen either. Rivian beat Ford to market and has outproduced Ford for the past 18 months.

So what I'm saying, on a Rivian forum, is that what Rivian has accomplished is amazing. What Tesla has done with the CT, two years later than Rivian and four years late by their own timeline, is differenent from what Rivian has done. That does not make it better, nor does it make it worse. A lot of Tesla's choices are questionable and it remains to be seen whether they are actually good choices and improvements or whether they are horrid mistakes. Realistically it will be a mix, but we won't know until there is some actual data and some actual CTs on the road not just 10 hand-selected vehicles.

4 years from reveal to delivered to customer from a company that has never made a truck not fast enough?

Ahem. Tesla claimed that they were manufacturing geniuses and had learned from their hard work over many years how to build vehicles and how to build them Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, and cheaper to boot. "Never made a truck" is a cop out. Their whole claim was that they knew what they were doing and could do it better than anyone. And could SPECIFICALLY do it better than Rivian - Elon himself said so. So for Tesla to take years LONGER than Rivian to bring a vehicle to market DESPITE their abilities, and for it NOT to be half the cost of the R1T with almost twice the range of the R1T is not something to brag about. Regardless of whether you think the CT is a good vehicle or bad, the CT falls far short of its own hype. And the problems that Tesla had in producing it and almost (but not yet) bringing it to market simply underscore how good a job Rivian has done.

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