Dual Motor vs Quad Motor real world range

[joeblk10]

I am taking delivery this week in Denver on a dual motor large with 21s. I hope to find time to test it a little. It sounds like everyone’s preference would be to do a couple of efficiency runs @ 70 and then again @ 75.

This weekend I’m going mountain biking with a buddy and of course we will take the new rig. We’ve done this particular trip in my Audi e-tron many times with 2 bikes on a hitch rack. Should be a good comparison.

Cool. Be curious to know what you find out

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[riviansmoke]

I see that you live in NH, where winters can be severe. Given that Rivian has no heat pump to condition the batteries, the winter performance/use case may prove to be insufficient. With EPA 260ish miles, winter could be as low as 130~140ish miles (40~50% less)...

Good point! A heat pump would go a long way to improving cold weather efficiency. Will be nice to hear what the actual range ends up being in the cold. Unfortunately likely not going to see any real world data for a year and a half.

 

[Rivdog]

Cold weather performance is one of the things the Rivian software engineer told me was much improved with the new motors. He talked over my head pretty fast so can't repeat the why of it. Don't know if the battery thermals are also improved or what.

That would be a major breakthrough. 300+ miles is enough for most people, but that drops about 40% in the winter in my experience. My Mach E was rated for 211 miles and could usually get close to that in the summer. I could have lived with just 200 but it could sometimes get as low as only about 100 miles in the winter, even in a relatively moderate climate (usually the lowest temps were high 20’s). 110-120 miles just isn’t enough range. If Rivian could manage to get 75% of maximum estimated range in the winter, I’d have to seriously consider swapping my T for a dual motor S.

 

[emoore]

That would be a major breakthrough. 300+ miles is enough for most people, but that drops about 40% in the winter in my experience. My Mach E was rated for 211 miles and could usually get close to that in the summer. I could have lived with just 200 but it could sometimes get as low as only about 100 miles in the winter, even in a relatively moderate climate (usually the lowest temps were high 20’s). 110-120 miles just isn’t enough range. If Rivian could manage to get 75% of maximum estimated range in the winter, I’d have to seriously consider swapping my T for a dual motor S.

40% drop in the winter seems excessive. That would be like 1.3 miles per kWh. I was getting 1.9 or so last winter. Which is a 15% reduction.

 

[Rivdog]

40% drop in the winter seems excessive. That would be like 1.3 miles per kWh. I was getting 1.9 or so last winter. Which is a 15% reduction.

Thats about 244 which is absolutely exceptional. I was only getting about 1.6 in my MME in the winter. I usually don’t get more than about 2.4 even in ideal conditions with my Rivian, but I probably drive it a little harder than I should. I’d be ecstatic if I was getting 1.9 consistently in the winter because I’m expecting closer to 1.3.

 

[NineElectrics]

Rumors are that it won't be a ton more efficient because of how EPA measures efficiency. EPA uses the "standard" setting. On Dual the standard setting automatically switches to front-wheel-drive when that will be more efficient. On Quad the standard setting does not do this. However, the Quad has a dedicated setting for front-wheel-drive. Thus, the gap between Dual and Quad is not as large as it seems, assuming that the driver of the Quad switches to FWD when that is useful. There will still be some efficiency gain for Dual, but not as much as it appears.

I recall that the quad was tested with a blend of Sport and Conserve. Is that inaccurate?

 

[Riviot]

I am taking delivery this week in Denver on a dual motor large with 21s. I hope to find time to test it a little. It sounds like everyone’s preference would be to do a couple of efficiency runs @ 70 and then again @ 75.

This weekend I’m going mountain biking with a buddy and of course we will take the new rig. We’ve done this particular trip in my Audi e-tron many times with 2 bikes on a hitch rack. Should be a good comparison.

We'll await your scientific reports with temperatures, road conditions, speeds, payload, and quad comparison on same stretch with same conditions ?

40% drop in the winter seems excessive. That would be like 1.3 miles per kWh. I was getting 1.9 or so last winter. Which is a 15% reduction.

15% is about what I got in on a 0°F road trip with icy conditions. It really isn't that bad once the battery warms up, that conditioning takes most of the juice.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

I recall that the quad was tested with a blend of Sport and Conserve. Is that inaccurate?

I don’t recall that it was Sport and Conserve. My recollection is that it was All-Purpose for the whole thing. I could be wrong on that, though. Maybe someone else can chime in who remembers better.

 

[defcon888]

Genuine question for anyone that may know. Don't see anything about this on here yet. Stated range on the dual is higher than quad. However both are rated in all purpose mode where the dual automatically switches off the rear motor to conserve. My R1T quad in conserve mode is rated higher than the dual so technically higher range. With AT's it states 315 in conserve vs 300 for dual setup and I've gotten 300 real world as long as I'm gentle on the throttle. Does anyone with a dual motor setup out there have a real world range they are getting when they are trying to maximize range? Seems to me for 3k over a dual motor performance you get better performance both on and off road when you need or want it, plus slightly better range when you need it since you have a manual conserve mode. Extra warranty length too. Worth it to me. We are looking to get an R1S next year so curious to others experience on this.

When we first got our R1T in May, the guide said they Rivian boosted the published range to 329 miles on a 100% charge. They have since did 2 or 3 software updates since then and we charged to 100% before our trip last week and we topped out at 348 miles (conserve mode). I can see it getting to about 360 with software updates in the future....my opinion. This is why I am glad we got the Quad instead of waiting for the dual. The price differene for about 50 miles wasn't worth it.

 

[NineElectrics]

I don’t recall that it was Sport and Conserve. My recollection is that it was All-Purpose for the whole thing. I could be wrong on that, though. Maybe someone else can chime in who remembers better.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/what-drive-mode-is-used-for-the-epa-max-range-spec.14896/

I wouldn’t be surprised if Sport wasn’t far off from All Purpose mode, at least how the EPA tests it.

 

[Golfer04]

_

When we first got our R1T in May, the guide said they Rivian boosted the published range to 329 miles on a 100% charge. They have since did 2 or 3 software updates since then and we charged to 100% before our trip last week and we topped out at 348 miles (conserve mode). I can see it getting to about 360 with software updates in the future....my opinion. This is why I am glad we got the Quad instead of waiting for the dual. The price differene for about 50 miles wasn't worth it.

You can't use the Guess o Meter (GoM) on the screen to determine your range. That will never be accurate; especially if driving 70mph or more. If you want an accurate range number use trip B, or check odometer when you start a trip and see how far you go before needing a charge. I'm now on 20 inch Michelins and have never made it 300 miles. Set cruise at 74 (73 mph waze) so not fast either. In my 47,000 miles of experience the best range is on a state highway (2 lane) at 63 mph. Average close to 2.5 mi(kHw); at 135 kw battery useable that is 337 miles.

 

[usofrob]

Here are some details I collected from the EPA data:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...dual-motors-from-epa-filing.17123/post-365634

The quad is tested with conserve and All Purpose. Dual is just All Purpose because it has a built in Conserve mode. The tested range of the Dual is a little better, but Rivian adjusts the Quad range (an optional EPA thing to do) a lot more than they do the Dual. My guess was that they'll see how it works in the wild then adjust up later like they did with the Quad initially.

 

[mtberman]

When I picked it up today, it had 11 miles on it and was charged to 85% with 301 miles of estimated range showing.

This is what I got after driving 40 miles up into the mountains (1.87 mi/kWh) and then 40 miles back home (3.96 mi/kWh), then about 10 miles round trip for dinner.

 

[SANZC02]

40% drop in the winter seems excessive. That would be like 1.3 miles per kWh. I was getting 1.9 or so last winter. Which is a 15% reduction.

I agree maybe 40% if you do a lot of 10 minute trips and the vehicle does not get up to an efficient operating temperature.

I drove from Normal, IL to Boston last January temps in the 20’s the whole way and was also between 1.9 and 2.0 miles per kW.

 

[joeblk10]

When I picked it up today, it had 11 miles on it and was charged to 85% with 301 miles of estimated range showing.

This is what I got after driving 40 miles up into the mountains (1.87 mi/kWh) and then 40 miles back home (3.96 mi/kWh), then about 10 miles round trip for dinner.

That seems pretty good. I get roughly 2.6 mi/kWh in conserve and 2.25 in all purpose on average with my quad motors

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