Dont get too happy just yet, Tesla SCs are designed for Teslas.

[Dark-Fx]

The problem is that isn't not an adapter, it's a 6 foot long dongle. I fear that this is going to leave the CCS only vehicles out in the cold. If everyone in NA moves to NACS then us looking to keep our trucks 15 years will be SOL when it comes to DC charging.

As long as the protocol remains compatible it doesn't really matter that you don't have the right port on your vehicle. Adapters will exist as long as you can initiate a session. It's just that right now Tesla doesn't let you, and they could decide to take it away in the future.

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[SANZC02]

There's no such thing as the "correct" stall, now that we're all equals at the superchargers. Tesla owners will just have to suck it up and deal with the same parking/orientation issues that CCS users have had to deal with for years. And yes, it will hurt supercharger availability numbers and will hurt users' opinions of the convenience of the superchargers, just as this issue has hurt EA and others for years.

In reality you only lose a parking space if a Tesla and Rivian plug in side to side. Hopefully people will learn to adjust how they choose the stalls. If used efficiently at a 12 stall SuperCharger you could get 11 vehicles connected if the CCS users came from one side and Tesla users came from the other. Does not help in places like SoCal with very busy stations though as many times it is a next available scenario.

 

[emoore]

That’s not what Wall Street is expecting. They see Tesla making huge profits from GM, Ford, Rivian and others using their Superchargers. If they don’t find a way to accommodate these vehicles they won’t meet shareholder’s expectations.

Do you think most on wall street know that supercharger cables are too short to use on most other EVs? I don't think so, they only care about the headlines.

 

[VSG]

The Tesla SC cable is liquid cooled. An adapter that is an extension cable will require cooling or increasing the cable size 3x - 4x to carry more current without cooling. Otherwise, they will not be able to charge at full rate.

SC V4 is liquid cooled. AFAIK previous versions are not.

And again, the same situation obtains at EA charging stations. That longer/thicker/cooled EA cable is one of the reasons that EA is less reliable.

 

[FrankieJ]

Do you think most on wall street know that supercharger cables are too short to use on most other EVs? I don't think so, they only care about the headlines.

You are missing the point. All Wall Street cares about is the revenue side and Tesla will be best served by accommodating as many EVs as they can.

 

[emoore]

SC V4 is liquid cooled. AFAIK previous versions are not.

And again, the same situation obtains at EA charging stations. That longer/thicker/cooled EA cable is one of the reasons that EA is less reliable.

And that's really our only hope, a 6 foot long adapter for V2 and V3 chargers. V4 chargers will hopefully have longer cords to just use a short adapter. I still think that means CCS cars will be limited to 150 kw charging.

 

[VSG]

In reality you only lose a parking space if a Tesla and Rivian plug in side to side.

In principle yes, but in practice that's going to be the norm. (It's not just Rivians that are a "problem"). With EA stations, it's easy to have only half the stalls used but still be unable to charge because the available cables won't reach to your charging port. This is one of the many things people bring up when they talk about EA availability/reliability. The same thing is going to be true at superchargers now.

The new EA stations have longer, overhead cables that make this much less of a problem.

 

[Tahoe Man]

Vehicle manufacturers should be figure out the best location of their charging port for use at superchargers.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

As with any major change there will have to be an "adjustment" . The magic dock videos showed folks charging at a Tesla charger in NY....paying 0.49 per kwh. You can bet non Tesla vehicles will pay a higher rate or be subject to a monthly fee to charge at lower rates. The "adjustment" will have to be "subsidized".

With that said we need more pull through chargers. Pull through, while more expensive to implement, is a proven way to fuel vehicles. It allows folks to pull alongside the charger in line up the charge cord with their charge port. It will also allow folks who are towing to keep their load hooked up while charging.

 

[Zoidz]

SC V4 is liquid cooled. AFAIK previous versions are not.

And again, the same situation obtains at EA charging stations. That longer/thicker/cooled EA cable is one of the reasons that EA is less reliable.

V3 and V4

 

[VSG]

As long as the protocol remains compatible it doesn't really matter that you don't have the right port on your vehicle. Adapters will exist as long as you can initiate a session. It's just that right now Tesla doesn't let you, and they could decide to take it away in the future.

I agree, but the argument that Tesla could "take it away" is really the wrong slant IMO because it comes across as Tesla conspiring to deliberately screw everyone else.

The danger is, unless "NACS" becomes a real open standard (which requires Tesla to relinquish control), Tesla is free to make bug fixes/changes/tweaks/additions to its proprietary plug and protocol for valid technical reasons, and is free to make those changes without coordinating with all the parties that are using "NACS". While I'm sure Tesla will roll out those changes in a manner that is not disruptive to Tesla users, there is no assurance that other users will be able to continue to use the supercharger network under the new conditions. Intentional or not, any change Tesla makes to its proprietary specification will have significant impact to all users. That is why they all need a say. Rivian might be able to push an OTA if it's simply a small protocol change, but what about manufacturers who don't use OTA updates?

 

[SANZC02]

The problem is that isn't not an adapter, it's a 6 foot long dongle. I fear that this is going to leave the CCS only vehicles out in the cold. If everyone in NA moves to NACS then us looking to keep our trucks 15 years will be SOL when it comes to DC charging.

Have you actually seen this somewhere? I do not see how they can do it as a dongle, the wire size would have to be huge to support the current without some cooling method. If you think people are complaining about how hard it is to use a CCS plug, imagine when they have to wrestle with a dongle.

I think the adapters will be just like the magic dock, small and compact with a limit of 150 kWh. There will be challenges to share the stations across various vehicle brands.

Rivian may actually have a leg up here, with the original test mules they had the connector on the right front of the vehicle, probably not hard to add that back in.

This is all just my opinion, I have not seen any details around how anyone is planning to implement this.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I agree, but the argument that Tesla could "take it away" is really the wrong slant IMO because it comes across as Tesla conspiring to deliberately screw everyone else.

The danger is, unless "NACS" becomes a real open standard (which requires Tesla to relinquish control), Tesla is free to make bug fixes/changes/tweaks/additions to its proprietary plug and protocol for valid technical reasons, and is free to make those changes without coordinating with all the parties that are using "NACS". While I'm sure Tesla will roll out those changes in a manner that is not disruptive to Tesla users, there is no assurance that other users will be able to continue to use the supercharger network under the new conditions. Intentional or not, any change Tesla makes to its proprietary specification will have significant impact to all users. That is why they all need a say. Rivian might be able to push an OTA if it's simply a small protocol change, but what about manufacturers who don't use OTA updates?

It's really a question of safety in my mind. Adapters introduce additional points of contact that are potentially not well maintained. Tesla could decide to ban adapters from being used because they don't want to assume the risk. In several years, I could easily see people having an adapter that is getting worn out or has some other kind of issue that no-longer positively latches into place on both sides. If you pull out an active HV cable pushing hundreds of KW through, it's going to be nasty and probably damage everything involved.

 

[VSG]

I see, you are talking about adapters, I was referring to using an "NACS" receptacle before "NACS" becomes a standard (and that's why I use quotes around that acronym - "standard" it is not.)

An adapter is not that different than a plug or a receptacle. All of them can be worn out by repeated use. An adapter is twice as likely because it has two ends, but hopefully both ends are designed to meet current specifications for the number of insertion cycles.

I'm going to assume that since Tesla controls the supercharger protocol that Tesla will be the one to make and sell the adapters - no one else has the ability to do that currently. I hope that there is some language in the supercharger access contract that addresses what Rivian gets for its money - can Tesla charge $1k for an adapter? Can Tesla change the protocol (for valid reasons) then force people to buy a new adapter because they can't be updated? Can Tesla ban adapters at some locations or for some vehicles? As long as superchargers are Tesla's proprietary product we (and all the non-Tesla EV charging networks) are held hostage to Tesla's actions once we switch to Tesla's proprietary plug.

 

[emoore]

Have you actually seen this somewhere? I do not see how they can do it as a dongle, the wire size would have to be huge to support the current without some cooling method. If you think people are complaining about how hard it is to use a CCS plug, imagine when they have to wrestle with a dongle.

I think the adapters will be just like the magic dock, small and compact with a limit of 150 kWh. There will be challenges to share the stations across various vehicle brands.

Rivian may actually have a leg up here, with the original test mules they had the connector on the right front of the vehicle, probably not hard to add that back in.

This is all just my opinion, I have not seen any details around how anyone is planning to implement this.

I’m not suggesting the cable be liquid cooled. I agree that any CCS vehicle will be limited to 150kw at a Tesla supercharger. The magic dock won’t help because the cable is still too short. My point was that the superchargers are going to be of limited use to CCS vehicles unless an uncooked 6 foot adapter is used. Unless you want to take up 2 spaces to charge.

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