Rivan wants you to cancel your pre March '22 order [?]

[SeaGeo]

I think Rivian's outstanding preorder/reservation count may be a bit specious. I suspect internally they are seeing concerning numbers around conversions to actual orders, particularly for post-price-increase reservations in light of the macroeconomic environment and changes to the tax credit. Consider new orders placed today are estimated to deliver as early as "late 2023." If true that's really not much of a wait for a product that has over 100k reservations. I don't think they're ramping the line quite that fast.

Pretty sure a lot of that has to do with location. Ordering a common R1T in Seattle now may get an insignificantly small number of people a truck as early as late 2023. Someone ordering in say... Missoula will probably say "processng" through 2023. Also notice they aren't saying to expect it in 2023, and that they have said they would stop reporting either the reservation backlog or buildtime during the last quarterly meeting, seemingly because they don't want to discourage people from reserving.

Want an R1 soon? Live near a SC. It's not that hard to figure out at this point.

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[Jac]

Pretty sure a lot of that has to do with location. Ordering a common R1T in Seattle now may get an insignificantly small number of people a truck as early as late 2023. Someone ordering in say... Missoula will probably say "processng" through 2023. Also notice they aren't saying to expect it in 2023, and that they have said they would stop reporting either the reservation backlog or buildtime during the last quarterly meeting, seemingly because they don't want to discourage people from reserving.

Want an R1 soon? Live near a SC. It's not that hard to figure out at this point.

Interesting. It never occurred to me that Rivian’s motivation for not revealing their latest preorder/reservation count going forward was to avoid discouraging people from reserving. I just assumed Rivian was pretty sure that number had peaked and lower reported totals going forward would not be welcome news to the investment community — even though higher output at the Normal factory is a huge investor positive.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I still don’t understand why you haven’t just used a believable address in a city nearer a service centre. Surely you know someone in a city with a service centre?

But then they can't play the victim! And they certainly won't be able to get easy service either.

With an Adventure R1T ordered in 2018, you should have had delivery by now. The location didn't really play any part in deliveries until June of last year when they sent out the new delivery windows. But Adventure editions had been shipping for several months already at that point so you should have received yours by then. I suspect there's something you left out, like you were configured for a Max Pack or an Explore model? Or did you switch from a R1S at some point? Those are an entirely different story. If not, then location seems to be the only thing left.

They had an explore configured until Rivian decided to axe the option. That was well after they seemed to change their policy about distance to service center. IMO that's the only thing holding Rivian back from selling them a vehicle. It's easy to trick if you were willing to take the risk about service being a pain in the ass. Guessing they aren't.

 

[astonius]

Pretty sure a lot of that has to do with location. Ordering a common R1T in Seattle now may get an insignificantly small number of people a truck as early as late 2023. Someone ordering in say... Missoula will probably say "processng" through 2023. Also notice they aren't saying to expect it in 2023, and that they have said they would stop reporting either the reservation backlog or buildtime during the last quarterly meeting, seemingly because they don't want to discourage people from reserving.

Want an R1 soon? Live near a SC. It's not that hard to figure out at this point.

No denying the proximity to an SC plays a role in how quickly someone gets a truck relative to others, but the “late 2023” estimate is not a region-specific timeline.

Not signed in, and no location services enabled. This is from moments ago.

I guess we could charitably read the SC proximity into this. Wouldn’t be the first time Rivian wasn’t clear in their comms.

 

[moosetags]

With an Adventure R1T ordered in 2018, you should have had delivery by now. The location didn't really play any part in deliveries until June of last year when they sent out the new delivery windows. But Adventure editions had been shipping for several months already at that point so you should have received yours by then. I suspect there's something you left out, like you were configured for a Max Pack or an Explore model? Or did you switch from a R1S at some point? Those are an entirely different story. If not, then location seems to be the only thing left.

My original order was the Explore Edition. I switched to the Adventure Edition when Rivian told me they were never going to make the Explore Edition. At that point, I thought that I would be getting my R1T any day now. Then I was hit with there are no trucks for people who live far away from a Rivian Service Centers. I even tried changing my delivery point to the Factory, and asked for access to the R1 Shop. They told me NO and changed my delivery address back to my home address in the Florida Panhandle.

Rivian will probably never have a Service Center near here. That's why I became a little excited when someone on this thread mentioned that Rivians were being delivered 400 miles from a Service Center. By the time that my expected delivery date comes, I will have six years into this thing.

Brian

 

[Runamok]

We're all anxious for our vehicles and it feels unfair if someone with a later order date gets their vehicle first, myself included. Outside of LE, Rivian makes no hard guarantee as to your "position in line". Zero, none. There is a conflict of interest here. Your "position in line" conflicts with Rivian short term profit struggle to survive. Consider the market. All the major car manufacturers have electric trucks. And for the R1S, more "three row" EVs are hitting the market; EQS, EQB, Ioniq 7, EV9, VF9, EX90. Not to mention, Tesla pouring on some price pressure. Those of us waiting WILL have more options.

If they have enough orders (pre and post) to keep them at capacity for 2023, Rivian can and should prioritize price-hiked Rivians. It just makes sense. Yes ... they DO need to be concerned about customer reaction. But, that's only proved disastrous when they jerk around the customer base "en masse." It's unethical, but individual jerk arounds are quieter.

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle? Honoring some early holders, slipping in some post. It's just a question of how much? All speculation here could be removed with data. Does the forum have a Google sheet tracking deliveries? (Username, Price, Config, Distance to SC, 2023 Q1 delivery date, 2023 Q2 delivery date, Q3 ...) With that you could track their promises and build a trend. That would stop the speculation.

We might find our "positions in line" are generally being honored? But considering market conditions, and profit motives I doubt they are strictly honored.

Only the data could tell! Where's the sheet?

 

[Zoidz]

Certainly looks and feels like being dicked around on Max Pack, dropping quad motor, winch, and delaying tank turn indefinitely. These were "at launch" specifications and quite literally three "wow" features that I found most appealing in 2018 and in June '21 when I was first told "ready any day now" from my first guide …

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure tank turn was never a “specification“. They released a video of it, teased it, etc. but never actually put it in any specs or specified a timeline.

With all the suspension and half shaft issues to date, you can rest assurred we will NEVER see tank turn. I mentioned in several previous tank turn threads that this would put tremendous lateral forces on the suspension and I was always doubtful we would see it. Based on what we know today, Rivian would be shooting themselves in the foot if they release tank turn.

 

[SeaGeo]

No denying the proximity to an SC plays a role in how quickly someone gets a truck relative to others, but the “late 2023” estimate is not a region-specific timeline.

Not signed in, and no location services enabled. This is from moments ago.

I guess we could charitably read the SC proximity into this. Wouldn’t be the first time Rivian wasn’t clear in their comms.

I wasn't suggesting the website is responsive to location like that (which would be cool), just pointing out that practically speaking that's probably what's going on.

 

[the long way downunder]

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure tank turn was never a “specification“. They released a video of it, teased it, etc. but never actually put it in any specs or specified a timeline.

It was one of the few features they advertised, no asterisks. It was discussed as a feature during my purchase and I was assured it was a software thing, coming real soon now.

With all the suspension and half shaft issues to date, you can rest assurred we will NEVER see tank turn. I mentioned in several previous tank turn threads that this would put tremendous lateral forces on the suspension and I was always doubtful we would see it. Based on what we know today, Rivian would be shooting themselves in the foot if they release tank turn.

Is there more than one suspension issue (the torque recall)?
Tank turn is not a excessive load scenario. It's no more load than a standing launch or threshold braking.
Two other companies have shown tank turn demos.
It's one thing to be slow to deliver a software feature, but the lack of communication from Rivian on customer issues and investor relations is the real concern.
I think the last year has shown Rivian to be failing at their software game. The app and touchscreen are junk. The vehicle management and battery management are where they've improved and delivered upgrades.

 

[Zoidz]

It was one of the few features they advertised, no asterisks. It was discussed as a feature during my purchase and I was assured it was a software thing, coming real soon now.

Is there more than one suspension issue (the torque recall)?
Tank turn is not a excessive load scenario. It's no more load than a standing launch or threshold braking.
Two other companies have shown tank turn demos.
It's one thing to be slow to deliver a software feature, but the lack of communication from Rivian on customer issues and investor relations is the real concern.
I think the last year has shown Rivian to be failing at their software game. The app and touchscreen are junk. The vehicle management and battery management are where they've improved and delivered upgrades.

From various posts here and elsewhere there seem to be the following suspension related issues frequently reported:
- suspension flex noise/squeaking
- half shafts making noise
- half shafts completely popping out
- tie rod failures while offroading

Tank turn is definitely more stress on the suspension than normal use. With respect to the direction of travel, braking and launch are largely linear, not lateral. Watch the video, there are lateral forces that just do not exist under normal driving conditions. The front and rear of the vehicle are moving sideways, the front wheels are pointed straight. In a tank turn, the slip angle of the tire, and therefore stress on the suspension, is high. Sure, on soft, wet, loamy soil it will be fine. But what about hard packed, dry, rocky dirt? What happens when the front end is spinning sideways and hits a large rock?

You can visualize these lateral forces by taking a model car and trying to spin it in a circle on a rough surface. It will move front and back just fine, but resist spinning in a circle. Even though the Rivian tires are spinning, these stresses still exist.

I just don't think the suspension was engineered for tank turn stresses and Rivian knows it's a failure risk. Tank turn was a cool "Hold My Beer!" idea.

 

[the long way downunder]

From various posts here and elsewhere there seem to be the following suspension related issues frequently reported:
- suspension flex noise/squeaking
- half shafts making noise
- half shafts completely popping out
- tie rod failures while offroading

I saw one or two instances of people rock crawling and broke a tie-rod. It does look under-nourished for the weight of the vehicle.

Tank turn is definitely more stress on the suspension than normal use. With respect to the direction of travel, braking and launch are largely linear, not lateral. Watch the video, there are lateral forces that just do not exist under normal driving conditions. The front and rear of the vehicle are moving sideways, the front wheels are pointed straight. In a tank turn, the slip angle of the tire, and therefore stress on the suspension, is high.

Tank turn is no more slip angle than braking or accelerating while turning. If you want extreme yet normal slip angles, tow an 9,000lb trailer downhill, brake to hold 55 mph, then negotiate sweeping mountainous turns. The regen will overheat, the brakes will heat up, the tire pressures will climb … and this could continue for an hour or more (e.g. descending from the Sierras.) Then the terrain will level out and everything will return to normal.

If I was to guess at reasons why Rivian hasn't delivered tank turn mode, there's (1) they're lacking a gyro or other sensor with sufficient resolution to solve for all potentials and (2) legal beagle fear of negative PR resulting from abuse (e.g. death, injury, public nuisance.) I recall someone at Rivian mentioning it wasn't their brand image to be spinning donuts, ripping up the ground instead of "treading lightly" (which is patent nonsense, but could well become the lip service they use to excuse themselves.)

 

[Zoidz]

I saw one or two instances of people rock crawling and broke a tie-rod. It does look under-nourished for the weight of the vehicle.

Tank turn is no more slip angle than braking or accelerating while turning.

Of course it is - the tires are moving SIDEWAYS in a tank turn.

 

[R1Sky Business]

No one is "dicking around" with you.

You placed a non-LE R1S order in November of 2021. That means you have all the R1S AND R1T orders from 2018, 2019, 2020, and (most of) 2021 ahead of you.

Your place in line is at least #50,000. We know this from the S-1.

Rivian has so far produced fewer than 25,000 R1 vehicles as of today.

So there are still 25,000 orders in front of you.

There is no reasonable argument that you are being "delayed" for nefarious reasons. In fact there's no reasonable argument that you have been "delayed" at all.

As far as "extending their wait times to 'unreasonable' levels" ... as far as your order goes there is NO WAY you should have expected to have your vehicle by now, given the above facts. That would have been an "unreasonable" expectation on YOUR part. Don't blame Rivian for your own misconceptions.

But I want it now. .. ?

 

[VSG]

But I want it now. .. ?

Call JG Wentworth. It's MY R1S and I need it NOW.

 

[the long way downunder]

Of course it is - the tires are moving SIDEWAYS in a tank turn.

I don't mean to bore you or the readers of this thread, but the tires are not moving and cannot move "sideways" … tires only roll or slip.

'The vehicle is not moving sideways, either, it's rotating on an axis:
1. Two tires rotating forwards, experiencing the loads of a standing start launch like a 0-60 drag.
2. Two tires rotating backwards, experiencing the loads of heavy braking.

I'm no physicist, but I'd call these moments.

It's a four wheel drift, with one side of the vehicle is drifting forwards and the other side drifting backwards. Rotating around a vertical axis or polar center.

The vehicle is experiencing a simple "burn out" at each tire. That's all. The suspension, steering gear, wheel bearings … all experience the same loads as power oversteer on one side and braking understeer on the other side.

It's not that the R1 needs all its power and torque to break traction at one or more corners ... even on asphalt.

The thing that Rivian really needs to do is finish the software to balance these two moments and keep the vehicle spinning within its wheelbase. Then, all they need is a "call my mommy" warning on the touchscreen.

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