Sponsored

At what point is the R1T outdated?

the long way downunder

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
934
Reaction score
985
Location
charging
Vehicles
Tesla
Occupation
WFH
Something seems amiss with the energy quantities above. A Joule is a pretty tiny unit of energy 59 megajoules to boil 60 kettles seems possibly correct but 11 megawatts to boil 60 kettles seems way to large, no? Either way technical feasibility is only the first hurdle, economic feasibility may prove just as tricky. While we are waiting for economic net positive fusion here on Earth we can continue to harness the clean already economic byproduct of fusion occurring in our local star.
Thinking of solar and wind rather than fossil fuels which could technically be considered a byproduct of our suns fusion as well. It could turn out that humans can generate enough clean sustainable power without fusion so I wouldn't recommend we put to much emphasis on any one technology. I'm also not convinced that electrochemical battery cells will ultimately prove to be sustainable. As you (or someone?) just mentioned the quantities required are very large.
I throw those "human scale" depictions in the recycling … either the report includes units of measure or it doesn't. You can't submit your science paper in cups of boiled water or baked brownies … there's conversion losses and who knows what … "standard temperature and pressure" is out the window. I tried to work through the boiled monkey bottoms example and it didn't make sense … I think fusion is ten times more potent than described, but so what …?

The problem with nuclear is not just the energy yield of fusion or the catastrophic annihilation of the human race and life on Earth with fission, it's the time it takes to build a reactor plant … 5 to 15 years to acquire the site, 10-15 years to build the plant, 5 years to bring the power on line … another 5 to 15 years to process the waste … these are quarter century projects based on technology that doesn't exist today … !
Conversely, solar-battery, wind-battery and geothermal-battery are all existing technologies that can be implemented in a matter of weeks or months, not years, and have no downside other than being cheaper every year.
Sponsored

 

Zoidz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gil
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Threads
105
Messages
3,126
Reaction score
6,876
Location
PA
Vehicles
23 R1S Adv, Avalanche, BMWs-X3,330cic,K1200RS bike
Occupation
Engineer
And with defeatist attitudes like that we'd still be in the stone age staring at our square wheels.

Humanity possesses infinite capability. We just have to harness our will. You're right, it's not easy, but few things in life worth doing are.

Instead of casting negativity at those who are dreaming of making it better, maybe direct that energy into positive change?
lol, not a defeatist attitude, it's an educated and realistic viewpoint about the challenges of storing energy. I'm a very positive person and have been acused of being overly optimistic. Conversely, If you want to talk about realistic positive change vs. defeatist attitude, refer back to the original post where I suggested nuclear power, and it was rebutted with a defeatist attitude.

Also, referring back to my point about nuclear power, the rebuttal said nuclear isn't going to happen. Read this article from Politico, and this article from Politico. Appears that there are many people looking for positive solutions to the problem by re-evaluating nuclear.
 

Zoidz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gil
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Threads
105
Messages
3,126
Reaction score
6,876
Location
PA
Vehicles
23 R1S Adv, Avalanche, BMWs-X3,330cic,K1200RS bike
Occupation
Engineer
Conversely, solar-battery, wind-battery and geothermal-battery are all existing technologies that can be implemented in a matter of weeks or months, not years, and have no downside other than being cheaper every year.
I'm all for it, but please provide some references to support your belief that gigawatts of capacity, or even 500 megawatts, can be constructed in weeks or months, that will generate and store energy for release overnight.
 

Craigins

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
1,555
Reaction score
2,355
Location
Chicago Suburbs
Vehicles
Rivian R1T
Occupation
Software engineer
Clubs
 
The problem with nuclear is not just the energy yield of fusion or the catastrophic annihilation of the human race and life on Earth with fission, it's the time it takes to build a reactor plant … 5 to 15 years to acquire the site, 10-15 years to build the plant, 5 years to bring the power on line … another 5 to 15 years to process the waste … these are quarter century projects based on technology that doesn't exist today … !
The biggest hurdle for nuclear is people with your attitude that complain very loudly.

Compare the time it takes china to build a nuclear plant compared to the US. The delay is because of people like you.
 

Craigins

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
1,555
Reaction score
2,355
Location
Chicago Suburbs
Vehicles
Rivian R1T
Occupation
Software engineer
Clubs
 
Something seems amiss with the energy quantities above. A Joule is a pretty tiny unit of energy 59 megajoules to boil 60 kettles seems possibly correct but 11 megawatts to boil 60 kettles seems way to large, no?.
So quickly googling a calculator, first is a watt and joule arent unit of measure of the same thing. It is joule to watt hour.

And the calculator reports that 60 MJ is about 16kWh.

This test was to see the output of the fuel mix that they want to use in a real fusion power plant. What they don't tell you in the articles was how much energy it took to produce the 60MJ. I've read about 3-4 different articles about the test and none of them state it.
 

Sponsored

hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2021
Threads
12
Messages
183
Reaction score
489
Location
SE
Vehicles
Tesla M3P, Raptor, Rivian Reservation 13##
This thread is going off topic. I'm about to contribute to that but with this one post only.

Anything man made is going to fail eventually, with enough time and/or use. Nuclear power plants can cause massive problems if/when this occurs. That industry has already had it's fair share of accidents.

Do nuclear power plants still generate any waste that has to be buried or sequestered away in some manner? That would be another eventual fail point. What could possibly go wrong with amassing an ungodly amount of nuclear waste over a period of years and storing it in thousands of barrels around the country/world? Surely that will never come back to haunt us.

Oil and Gas have their obvious drawbacks. They helped our species but now we know the price.
Burning fossils that took millions of years to form and were themselves mostly sequestered away until man started digging them up and burning it at an exponential rate. Now an entire planetary ecosystem that developed based on a certain range/level of co2 being released has been suddenly shocked by the wholesale burning over the last 100 or so years.

As far as SMRs, feel free to google and read about the cons of these types of power plants. They are numerous.

You know, anything we humans do, with as many of us as there are, is going to have an impact.
But somethings carry much more inherent risk and impact. It would seem those are the things that should be avoided where possible.

We need better long term thinking. In what works best, whats the most effective with the least amount of negatives. Not just for the immediate, but the long term.

I just do not see how solar isn't our strongest candidate.

The world should continually work on panel and battery storage efficiency, recycling of batteries. They need to keep working to improve the sustainability of the mining and materials.

Solar may not be able to power us completely on it's own right now, but it can be a huge part of being the solution.
 
Last edited:

E.S.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
825
Reaction score
1,057
Location
Florida
Vehicles
Chevy Bolt
Occupation
Retired
What could possibly go wrong with amassing an ungodly amount of nuclear waste over a period of years and storing it in thousands of barrels around the country/world? Surely that will never come back to haunt us.
"You called?"
Rivian R1T R1S At what point is the R1T outdated? 1645254206849
 

Craigins

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
1,555
Reaction score
2,355
Location
Chicago Suburbs
Vehicles
Rivian R1T
Occupation
Software engineer
Clubs
 
Anything man made is going to fail eventually, with enough time and/or use. Nuclear power plants can cause massive problems if/when this occurs. That industry has already had it's fair share of accidents.

Do nuclear power plants still generate any waste that has to be buried or sequestered away in some manner? That would be another eventual fail point. What could possibly go wrong with amassing an ungodly amount of nuclear waste over a period of years and storing it in thousands of barrels around the country/world? Surely that will never come back to haunt us.
Since it is your one post, I'll just point out that we have different definitions of the words ungodly and barrels, and the phrase fair share I guess.
 

the long way downunder

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
934
Reaction score
985
Location
charging
Vehicles
Tesla
Occupation
WFH
The biggest hurdle for nuclear is people with your attitude that complain very loudly.

Compare the time it takes china to build a nuclear plant compared to the US. The delay is because of people like you.
I see, it's my "attitude" about radioactive raw materials moving around the country on freight trains or radioctive waste being buried in concrete … trains don't crash, people don't make mistakes, and concrete underground for a hundred years never leaks.

It's naysayers like me standing in the way of global corporations … no wonder they can't invent a nuclear reactor that works … I'm volubly distracting them.

As for China, it's not how quickly or how shoddily they conduct public works, it's that they consume resources, dump waste into rivers and build coal fired power plants with no regard for the environment (or human rights.)
 

the long way downunder

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
934
Reaction score
985
Location
charging
Vehicles
Tesla
Occupation
WFH
This thread is going off topic. I'm about to contribute to that but with this one post only.

Anything man made is going to fail eventually, with enough time and/or use. Nuclear power plants can cause massive problems if/when this occurs. That industry has already had it's fair share of accidents.

Do nuclear power plants still generate any waste that has to be buried or sequestered away in some manner? That would be another eventual fail point. What could possibly go wrong with amassing an ungodly amount of nuclear waste over a period of years and storing it in thousands of barrels around the country/world? Surely that will never come back to haunt us.

Oil and Gas have their obvious drawbacks. They helped our species but now we know the price.
Burning fossils that took millions of years to form and were themselves mostly sequestered away until man started digging them up and burning it at an exponential rate. Now an entire planetary ecosystem that developed based on a certain range/level of co2 being released has been suddenly shocked by the wholesale burning over the last 100 or so years.

As far as SMRs, feel free to google and read about the cons of these types of power plants. They are numerous.

You know, anything we humans do, with as many of us as there are, is going to have an impact.
But somethings carry much more inherent risk and impact. It would seem those are the things that should be avoided where possible.

We need better long term thinking. In what works best, whats the most effective with the least amount of negatives. Not just for the immediate, but the long term.

I just do not see how solar isn't our strongest candidate.

The world should continually work on panel and battery storage efficiency, recycling of batteries. They need to keep working to improve the sustainability of the mining and materials.

Solar may not be able to power us completely on it's own right now, but it can be a huge part of being the solution.
Agreed. If we didn't have that fusion reactor in the sky, we might need to build one down here.
 

Sponsored

cardad

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kelvin
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
124
Reaction score
140
Location
Moab
Vehicles
R1T/S, Bronco Raptor, Wrangler4xe, Ioniq5, Winbago
Occupation
insurance agent
Seems like most of these gains are pretty marginal other than the battery system improvements… I mean, you can make some huge gains taping up every panel gap on the car but I don’t think most people would do that. Nobody is taking their mirrors off, let alone folding them up while they’re driving. They’re also not willing to swap between efficient and inefficient wheels/tires. If anything it’s the opposite trend. And the chin spoiler ?? I can’t imagine happening ever. Taycans could have this already and get even closer to the ground. It’s very expensive and easy to break. That’s like a falcon wing door that nobody wants or cares about.

I think the one area you and I missed would be the charging system. Presumably 800/900 V charging is where Rivian wants/needs to be to stay competitive. I can see someone being annoyed by taking delivery of their slower charging rig and then hearing about this upgrade…
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
8,863
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
.

I think the one area you and I missed would be the charging system. Presumably 800/900 V charging is where Rivian wants/needs to be to stay competitive. I can see someone being annoyed by taking delivery of their slower charging rig and then hearing about this upgrade…
OK, I’ll volunteer to take one for the team and jump ahead of anyone needing that 800volt charging to thin the 400 volt queue….. It will not matter for me as 90%+ of my charging will be in the garage overnight.
 

j.emerson

New Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
2
Reaction score
2
Location
Rancho Palos Verdes 90275
Vehicles
RAV4 EV
OK, I’ll volunteer to take one for the team and jump ahead of anyone needing that 800volt charging to thin the 400 volt queue….. It will not matter for me as 90%+ of my charging will be in the garage overnight.
Rivian’s trucks use a 400-volt battery pack and system voltage. However, as CEO

RJ Scaringe told Green Car Reports in 2018, they were designed from the start to

be upgraded to 800 volts.

Other new developments at Rivian include “a bidirectional home charger and

home energy products,” and “a heat pump-based thermal system for improved

cold-weather efficiency as well as a range of new battery packs including both

high-nickel and LFP chemistries.”
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
5,260
Reaction score
8,863
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
Rivian’s trucks use a 400-volt battery pack and system voltage. However, as CEO

RJ Scaringe told Green Car Reports in 2018, they were designed from the start to

be upgraded to 800 volts.

Other new developments at Rivian include “a bidirectional home charger and

home energy products,” and “a heat pump-based thermal system for improved

cold-weather efficiency as well as a range of new battery packs including both

high-nickel and LFP chemistries.”
There has been much discussion around this and it is pretty clear the current Bosch motors and existing electronics will not support either of these. Pretty sure this will come with the new Rivian motors they are working on.
 

JamesPolk24

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 1, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
161
Reaction score
189
Location
USA
Vehicles
R1T
I would also add V2H will be what is considered outdated. I see power reliability only getting worse in the future. Kinda stinks having the equivalent of 10 Powerwalls sitting in your garage and not able to use it to power your home in an emergency or to fully power an RV trailer or worksite tools. I think what Ford is offering with the 9.2kw inverter will become expected and date the current model at some point.
Sponsored

 
 




Top