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At what point is the R1T outdated?

Ladiver

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With the next inevitable delay and the slow ramp up, will the R1T become outdated before significant deliveries even start? If they take 2-3 years to clear the current backlog of orders, will the R1T still be relevant?

They are trying to come to market with killer specs for 2018, but it’s 2022! How will the look in a few years when a brand new R1T is using 5 year old tech? Will Rivian make any changes so close to launch, or have they stockpiled clearance parts and need to use up their inventory?

We know there are shortcomings and some will scream OTA updates but if the hardware isn’t there, no OTA magic can help.
I have a preorder for the R1T, R1S and Silverado EV. If Rivian can’t deliver in another year and doesn’t update the aging tech, I don’t see myself holding an R1 for very long, if at all.
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With the next inevitable delay and the slow ramp up, will the R1T become outdated before significant deliveries even start? If they take 2-3 years to clear the current backlog of orders, will the R1T still be relevant?

They are trying to come to market with killer specs for 2018, but it’s 2022! How will the look in a few years when a brand new R1T is using 5 year old tech? Will Rivian make any changes so close to launch, or have they stockpiled clearance parts and need to use up their inventory?

We know there are shortcomings and some will scream OTA updates but if the hardware isn’t there, no OTA magic can help.
I have a preorder for the R1T, R1S and Silverado EV. If Rivian can’t deliver in another year and doesn’t update the aging tech, I don’t see myself holding an R1 for very long, if at all.
What part of the vehicle would you consider to be eligible for being outdated? About the only thing I can see as potentially being outdate is the battery pack, and they already have long term plans for vertical integration of battery development.

I don't see anything being "outdated" until the charging infrastructure improves drastically, and then solid state batteries become commercial viable. So 5 years? But solid state batteries have been 5 years away for a long time now.

If you're one of those people who say "well the style is outdated" then I don't really have much to discuss on that point.
 
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Ladiver

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What part of the vehicle would you consider to be eligible for being outdated? About the only thing I can see as potentially being outdate is the battery pack, and they already have long term plans for vertical integration of battery development.

I don't see anything being "outdated" until the charging infrastructure improves drastically, and then solid state batteries become commercial viable. So 5 years? But solid state batteries have been 5 years away for a long time now.

If you're one of those people who say "well the style is outdated" then I don't really have much to discuss on that point.
The 400V vs 800V will show it’s age in a few years. If solid state batteries are 5 years away, then we should probably start seeing functional prototypes in 3ish years. Range of 315-400 miles will be low in 3 years. The 360 view cameras are low quality (I think hardware related), their main integrated audio provider, Spotify, is losing artists and subscribers at a rate that makes me question if they will be around in 2+ years.
I’m sure there is more, but I don’t have one in my driveway to look through.
 

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So, I get where you're coming from. But I also think it's a bit of a fallacy. It's functionally no different than ICE vehicles.

What's "obsolete" in this case? Not "best in category compared to new vehicles?" As long as they have that 800v parallel pack switch, there isnt a ton coming down the pipe to massively change performance.

Is a 2010 range Rover obsolete?
 

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The 400V vs 800V will show it’s age in a few years. If solid state batteries are 5 years away, then we should probably start seeing functional prototypes in 3ish years. Range of 315-400 miles will be low in 3 years. The 360 view cameras are low quality (I think hardware related), their main integrated audio provider, Spotify, is losing artists and subscribers at a rate that makes me question if they will be around in 2+ years.
I’m sure there is more, but I don’t have one in my driveway to look through.
I *think* they have the parallel pack built into it at this point to enable 800v equivalent charging.

I actually don't see range generally increasing much beyond 400 miles anytime soon for a lot of reasons.

Spotify is some bits of code. They can swap it out for Tidal whenever they want. Lol.

*if* quantumscape can get into mass production with a splid stste battery, and they are an LFP type battery it basically puts LFPs on the same level as NMC batteries. It would save money, but the range wouldn't drastically change. Told theoretically get less capacity loss, but that's noticeably obsolescence. And I think it allows charging on par with what the Ioniq 5 does, maybe a bit faster. But even with 350kw chargers. That can't happen with a pack the size of the max pack for example.
 
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The 400V vs 800V will show it’s age in a few years. If solid state batteries are 5 years away, then we should probably start seeing functional prototypes in 3ish years. Range of 315-400 miles will be low in 3 years. The 360 view cameras are low quality (I think hardware related), their main integrated audio provider, Spotify, is losing artists and subscribers at a rate that makes me question if they will be around in 2+ years.
I’m sure there is more, but I don’t have one in my driveway to look through.
With this kind of thinking we would never buy anything. With how fast tech changes you will always be behind the curve.

That being said, my 6 year old Tesla had decent specs when I bought it, is it the bleeding edge today? No, but it still holds it own and I I would not say it is outdated. I have no reason to think 6 years after I get my Rivian (whenever that is), that I will feel any different about it.
 

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The 400V vs 800V will show it’s age in a few years. If solid state batteries are 5 years away, then we should probably start seeing functional prototypes in 3ish years. Range of 315-400 miles will be low in 3 years. The 360 view cameras are low quality (I think hardware related), their main integrated audio provider, Spotify, is losing artists and subscribers at a rate that makes me question if they will be around in 2+ years.
I’m sure there is more, but I don’t have one in my driveway to look through.
The 400 vs 800 requires infrastructure upgrades to make full use of it. Hence it won't be outdated until the charging infrastructure is greatly improved. Hopefully Biden's plan helps that, which is also a 5 year plan.

Once charging infrastructure is improved, range becomes less of an issue, so having 300-400 instead of 500 doesn't really benefit much (yes there are cases where the extra 100 miles could theoretically eliminate one charging stop).

I doubt the physical cameras are an issue. My guess is it is a software one. And same with Spotify. Software can always be improved as long as there's pressure to make the improvement.

The only issue is if the electronics they are currently using are already outdated, they might not have the processing power required for future upgrades. However I can't see this being an issue unless they are really cutting corners on them.
 

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With this kind of thinking we would never buy anything. With how fast tech changes you will always be behind the curve.

That being said, my 6 year old Tesla had decent specs when I bought it, is it the bleeding edge today? No, but it still holds it own and I I would not say it is outdated.
I agree with your first statement, but actually strongly disagree with your 2nd. I was just in the same position, I had a 6 year old model X and I did feel it was kinda outdated, with every new software upgrade more and more "features" did not apply to me because of old outdated hardware. I just bought a new model X, still have the old one, and boy o boy it is night and day, in almost every single way. That is the issue with technology in cars now, only a few years makes a massive difference.
 
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Ladiver

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If I got my Rivian this year, I would be thrilled with it as-is even in 3-5 years from now when I would be ready for my next vehicle. But would I want the same vehicle in 3-5 years? Probably not.
As for the 2010 Range Rover, if I were in the market for an older used SUV, then I would consider it. If I were in the market for a new Range Rover and the dealer showed me the 2010 (even low miles) I would not be interested.
 

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I agree with your first statement, but actually strongly disagree with your 2nd. I was just in the same position, I had a 6 year old model X and I did feel it was kinda outdated, with every new software upgrade more and more "features" did not apply to me because of old outdated hardware. I just bought a new model X, still have the old one, and boy o boy it is night and day, in almost every single way. That is the issue with technology in cars now, only a few years makes a massive difference.
True, that is my bleeding edge reference. I would be foolish to think a 6 year old iPhone would have all of the bells and whistles of a new one. The same is true of these EV vehicles that are essentially rolling computers. The point is it still works today as it did when I bought it. It has some new features, still pretty quick, still gets me where I need it to, but does not get all of the latest tech.

If you want to stay near the top you need to do what you do with the phones and buy a new one every year or two. You just need to decide if it is worth it, I used to play that game until I realized I was getting rid of a perfectly good phone to get the latest and greatest that had features I really did not use. That is a personal decision we all need to make regardless of what we are buying.
 

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Ladiver

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With this kind of thinking we would never buy anything. With how fast tech changes you will always be behind the curve.
I disagree. I am a fairly early adopter of technology. In 2018, when Rivian showcased the R1T, Apple introduced the iPhone X and Google introduced the Pixel 3. Imagine if Apple/Google tried releasing either of those phone today or in 2-3 years.
Tesla and Rivian want to be tech companies. If that’s the market they want to play in, they need to understand that 2-3 year delays put them way behind in technology.
Back to the camera issue. I believe (personal opinion) is that the electronics being used are outdated and limiting the camera quality. Something like that is such a low hanging fruit that it should never have been put through QA. Some have said Rivian reduced the resolution so that more processing power could be used in data collection. If that’s true then it only strengthens my belief that the electronics are pre 2019 standards.
 

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If I got my Rivian this year, I would be thrilled with it as-is even in 3-5 years from now when I would be ready for my next vehicle. But would I want the same vehicle in 3-5 years? Probably not.
As for the 2010 Range Rover, if I were in the market for an older used SUV, then I would consider it. If I were in the market for a new Range Rover and the dealer showed me the 2010 (even low miles) I would not be interested.
Right. Which is my point (and we may be saying the same thing). I don't think this is a new issue, but I also don't think it's significantly different than with ICE vehicles. I think the issue is more preference than actually being out of date.

As a side note, I misread your original post and thought you said obsolete instead of outdated. Which would change my response a bit.
 
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True, that is my bleeding edge reference. I would be foolish to think a 6 year old iPhone would have all of the bells and whistles of a new one. The same is true of these EV vehicles that are essentially rolling computers. The point is it still works today as it did when I bought it. It has some new features, still pretty quick, still gets me where I need it to, but does not get all of the latest tech.

If you want to stay near the top you need to do what you do with the phones and buy a new one every year or two. You just need to decide if it is worth it, I used to play that game until I realized I was getting rid of a perfectly good phone to get the latest and greatest that had features I really did not use. That is a personal decision we all need to make regardless of what we are buying.
EXACTLY!!!!
The brand new R1T should be latest and greatest, not 3-5+ year old tech. Maybe I am willing to treat the EV like a cell phone. Rivian has a very long way to go for that to even be possible.
 
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Ladiver

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Right. Which is my point (and we may be saying the same thing). I don't think this is a new issue, but I also don't think it's significantly different than with ICE vehicles. I think the issue is more preference than actually being out of date.

As a side note, I misread your original post and thought you said obsolete instead of outdated. Which would change my response a bit.
You made me double check because I thought I said outdated.
I guess the real answer is the R1T was outdated in 2018, about 3 seconds after it was revealed. ?
 

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I disagree. I am a fairly early adopter of technology. In 2018, when Rivian showcased the R1T, Apple introduced the iPhone X and Google introduced the Pixel 3. Imagine if Apple/Google tried releasing either of those phone today or in 2-3 years.
Tesla and Rivian want to be tech companies. If that’s the market they want to play in, they need to understand that 2-3 year delays put them way behind in technology.
Back to the camera issue. I believe (personal opinion) is that the electronics being used are outdated and limiting the camera quality. Something like that is such a low hanging fruit that it should never have been put through QA. Some have said Rivian reduced the resolution so that more processing power could be used in data collection. If that’s true then it only strengthens my belief that the electronics are pre 2019 standards.
I love my Pixel 3. Still going strong and no complaints. Only issue is google end of lifed it, forcing users to upgrade or live without security patches. Such a waste.

As for cameras, my guess is they are taking the feed from the camera for whatever AI features they have, and then just display that on the screen. Typically the AI algorithms don't require as high resolution and thus you'd end up with a lower resolution. If this was a major issue, they could always pull the image in hd and downscale it for the AI after the split stream for display.

One interesting thing will be if auto makers follow suit and end of life vehicle updates, like the phone makers.
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