What would you do? Get LE version (300+) or wait for MaxPack (400+)?

[exprexxo]

If you want/need to 400 miles I would wait but I'm in no hurry for a new vehicle and since I'm in Alaska my LE will be towards the end of the LE deliveries.

I am visiting Alaska this week and the place just screens for Rivians. Perfect match. I do think longer range for the bigger states is smart

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[exprexxo]

I am a launch edition R1T preorder holder (Apr 2019), but I am considering changing my order to the MaxPack. I know this will push me out of the LE group and delay my delivery, but I really want that 400-mile range for some of the road trips I plan to take. I talked to a CS rep and they said if I end up changing I will still maintain my preorder rank among the non-LE group. And they recommended I wait and talk to my guide before making any decisions, since they might have more info at that time regarding delivery timing of each one.

What are your thoughts on the dilemma?

1. Get the truck sooner, and sacrifice the extra 100 miles
2. Be patient and wait for that MaxPack

Wait for bigger pack !!!! LoL

 

[timesinks]

It’s the opposite. Stop and go kills your range. Freeway at constrant speed
Isn’t bad in range.
Of course if your going ti drive 75 or more that will kill the range too

If that's your experience, you probably accelerate and decelerate more aggressively (and less efficiently) than average. In both the Volt and ID.4, stop and go (in mild temps with a dry roadway) are easy conditions for me to exceed the rated range. Driving along at 70mph, and I watch the miles melt off the counter faster than I make GPS progress.

 

[kylealden]

I had initially planned to wait for 400 but am more or less convinced by the TAT trip and recent congressional actions (both charging network stimulus and talk of restricting future EV credits) to pull the trigger on my LE iff I can get it this year instead.

If I lose the tax credit on the 400 mile version, it's suddenly over $20k more expensive instead of "just" $10k more expensive. I'm willing to occasionally phone a friend (or AAA) for a tow charge for $20k. The TAT expedition proves that with planning and a little patience, current (let alone future) infrastructure supports plenty of adventuring with the 300-mile range. My own Tesla experience shows that 300mi is enough for my own roadtripping desires.

400 miles would be really nice so I could do a round trip from Seattle to Mt Baker with skis, without charging - but that's not worth $20k, and I bet they add chargers in the parking lot in the next few years anyway.

The only edge cases I'm likely to run into some headaches are towing and overlanding. For the former, infrastructure and patience will mostly solve it. For the latter, it's not ideal since much of north central WA is a charging wasteland - but 300mi is close enough for me to roll the dice on it and wait for infrastructure to improve it.

 

[TessP100D]

If that's your experience, you probably accelerate and decelerate more aggressively (and less efficiently) than average. In both the Volt and ID.4, stop and go (in mild temps with a dry roadway) are easy conditions for me to exceed the rated range. Driving along at 70mph, and I watch the miles melt off the counter faster than I make GPS progress.

Not sure about the VW.
‘Tesla service center manager confirmed that starting and stoping uses way more battery than constant driving. Even if I take it very slow it still uses more energy than in the freeway. now of course if I take off quicker, it uses even more. If I’m on the freeway and hold to 65 MPH it gets way better MPe than on the streets. I don’t like it but it is what it is.

I also find any wind at all kills the range, and any include at all kills the range.

 

[TessP100D]

I had initially planned to wait for 400 but am more or less convinced by the TAT trip and recent congressional actions (both charging network stimulus and talk of restricting future EV credits) to pull the trigger on my LE iff I can get it this year instead.

If I lose the tax credit on the 400 mile version, it's suddenly over $20k more expensive instead of "just" $10k more expensive. I'm willing to occasionally phone a friend (or AAA) for a tow charge for $20k. The TAT expedition proves that with planning and a little patience, current (let alone future) infrastructure supports plenty of adventuring with the 300-mile range. My own Tesla experience shows that 300mi is enough for my own roadtripping desires.

400 miles would be really nice so I could do a round trip from Seattle to Mt Baker with skis, without charging - but that's not worth $20k, and I bet they add chargers in the parking lot in the next few years anyway.

The only edge cases I'm likely to run into some headaches are towing and overlanding. For the former, infrastructure and patience will mostly solve it. For the latter, it's not ideal since much of north central WA is a charging wasteland - but 300mi is close enough for me to roll the dice on it and wait for infrastructure to improve it.

Get the biggest battery you can afford. Don’t rely on Congress to save you money. In the end, after you have pulled the trigger, the Range will be the only thing that matters. Trust me.

 

[kylealden]

Get the biggest battery you can afford. Don’t rely on Congress to save you money. In the end, after you have pulled the trigger, the Range will be the only thing that matters. Trust me.

I've owned multiple EVs and know their limits well. If it comes down to trust, I'll trust myself, thanks.

Folks here have diverse use cases and correspondingly diverse decision frameworks. It can be helpful to compare notes and share real world data that might inform those. It is neither helpful nor interesting to shove vapid axioms in our faces just to be contrary.

 

[TessP100D]

I've owned multiple EVs and know their limits well. If it comes down to trust, I'll trust myself, thanks.

Folks here have diverse use cases and correspondingly diverse decision frameworks. It can be helpful to compare notes and share real world data that might inform those. It is neither helpful nor interesting to shove vapid axioms in our faces just to be contrary.

How about let’s just see when Rivain releases the truck, and real world tests are done. Right out of the gate Rivian is 10 years behind Tesla in battery management, etc.

folks. When you buy an electric vehicle, range matters. A LOT. Think hard before your short yourself on such a big expensive purchase.

 

[kylealden]

folks. When you buy an electric vehicle, range matters. A LOT. Think hard before your short yourself on such a big expensive purchase.

Yes, range matters. No, it's not the only thing that does. Buying more battery than you need is both an extremely poor use of a shitload of money, and cuts directly against the sustainability advantages of EVs, among other things.

It is almost certainly the case that most buyers will be better suited with the 300 mile pack. Some will truly need more, others will find valuable piece of mind in having more. Nobody needs to be lectured as though you're the only one on the planet who has ever driven an EV before. The condescending bit has gotten old.

Right out of the gate Rivian is 10 years behind Tesla in battery management, etc.

And they're 120 years behind Ford in chassis design, etc. Which means precisely nothing.

 

[TessP100D]

Yes, range matters. No, it's not the only thing that does. Buying more battery than you need is both an extremely poor use of a shitload of money, and cuts directly against the sustainability advantages of EVs, among other things.

It is almost certainly the case that most buyers will be better suited with the 300 mile pack. Some will truly need more, others will find valuable piece of mind in having more. Nobody needs to be lectured as though you're the only one on the planet who has ever driven an EV before. The condescending bit has gotten old.


And they're 120 years behind Ford in chassis design, etc. Which means precisely nothing.

It’s true some people don‘t being limited to just being able drive around town. If that’s you. Awesome. I could never justify a $100,000 purchase of a Tesla or a Rivian without the ability to drive for a couple hours without having to stop. Until the charging systems get built out, and this could take many many years, range matters.

forgive me, and I am not trying to be condescending to you or anybody else. Owning a Tesla for 4 years and now with with two more in the garage, I’m speaking from experience. You do t have to believe me. I understand that.

 

[Party Mode]

i agree with the above statements. You really just need to evaluate what you do now. How far you drive and in what way. My wife and I both own Tesla model S‘s. when we purchased her car they had 3 options , 90, 75, and a 60kw option. We thought about the 90. Actually agonized over it! But really couldn’t justify the extra $ for another 60-70 more miles. We bought the 75, and dismissed the 60 ( even though I now know that is a 75 pack charge limited to 60) looking back the 60 would have more than been enough for her, she literally drives 15-20 miles a day!
i have a 85kw pack car. I drive routinely 150-200 miles a day. Even though the 300 mile pack will handle that driving with ease. I don’t go off-roading and mountain trail driving in my Tesla. That is something I will be doing and I prefer the extra range for that activity. The initial purchase is your only time to pull that trigger!

 

[Ventura]

I'm honestly considering the 300 mile pack more than I thought I would. I've been playing with websites that help with trip planning to figure out what my needs really are. I started with the view that I "needed" the max pack. I'm no longer so sure given the extra $ and weight.
I really need to know when Rivian is getting that charger in Ludlow, CA. Seems like a hole in my needed charger coverage (chargers in Barstow and Needles are fine for E/W travel but not for exploring).

 

[kylealden]

It’s true some people don‘t being limited to just being able drive around town. If that’s you. Awesome.
[...]
I’m speaking from experience. You do t have to believe me. I understand that.

I have three years, 50,000 miles, and over 5,000 individual drives logged in my Model 3 and Y, both of which have the same or less rated range than the LE R1T.

These miles include summer performance tires in Track Mode, winter tires in deep powder, all-seasons with chains, and patched flats. They cover temperatures from below zero to 115 degrees. They include on-road, off-road, mud, snow, beaches, blizzards, torrential storms, fires, and even Seattle streets. They include skiing in three states and creeping up half the trailheads in Washington. I've carried a rooftop box thousands of miles at 85mph, hauled bikes, towed an Airstream (at 115 degrees), and road tripped throughout four states and Canada. I promise you I'm not "limited to just driving around town."

Here's the thing about experience: It doesn't generalize well. You're out here acting like anyone who opts for the Large pack simply doesn't have the blessing of experience. Consider that they may just have plenty of experience to inform their needs and save between ten and twenty thousand dollars.

None of this is to say that the Max pack isn't a great option, maybe even the only option, for lots of buyers. But it's not for everyone, and probably overkill for many if not most. Excess is excess, even if it's electric, and wasting $10-20k is foolish, even if you can afford a $70k vehicle comfortably.

"I've found that I got a lot less range than expected in road trip conditions, especially when doing x or y, so I'm getting the Max pack, and would encourage new EV buyers to consider these variables" might be helpful advice. Replying "neener neener range matters" every time someone articulates their reasoning for buying the Large pack isn't.

 

[SeaGeo]

Not sure about the VW.
‘Tesla service center manager confirmed that starting and stoping uses way more battery than constant driving. Even if I take it very slow it still uses more energy than in the freeway. now of course if I take off quicker, it uses even more. If I’m on the freeway and hold to 65 MPH it gets way better than on the streets. I don’t like it but it is what it is.

I also find any wind at all kills the range, and any include at all kills the range.

speed = wind. There is some miscommunication between you and the service manager, or he doesn't know what he's talking about. There's a reason EPA consumption for EVs is less in city than on the highway, and why hybrid vehicles generally have higher city mpg values than highway. There's a reason MPGe is higher in the city cycle than highway for both the Model 3 and R1T, and it's not because city driving is more efficient. All things equal start/stop uses more energy, yes. But cruising at 75 uses more energy than the typical start/stop in a city at lower speeds.

 

[kylealden]

speed = wind. There is some miscommunication between you and the service manager, or he doesn't know what he's talking about. There's a reason EPA consumption for EVs is less in city than on the highway, and why hybrid vehicles generally have higher city mpg values than highway. There's a reason MPGe is higher in the city cycle than highway for both the Model 3 and R1T, and it's not because city driving is more efficient. All things equal start/stop uses more energy, yes. But cruising at 75 uses more energy than the typical start/stop in a city at lower speeds.

I think the key here is that stop/start is always less efficient than constant cruise at the same speed; this is straightforwardly because regen can only capture ~70% or less of the energy taken to accelerate back up to speed after stopping.

But faster is (generally) less efficient, at least at non-trivial speeds. The EPA cycle "highway" tests are at pretty low speeds (all below 60mph and mostly below 55 - Detailed Test Information (fueleconomy.gov)) . When we think intuitively of "highway travel," we're thinking of something much more like constant 65-75mph travel, which requires dramatically more energy (especially over 70mph) than lower speeds.

EPA highway range is pretty much in an efficiency sweet spot versus stop and go, and is going to be more efficient. But stop and go around town compares favorably to 75mph on the interstate.

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