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Tonneau cover issues
- Thread starter paul_rivianlife
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crashmtb
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the last person they should be telling it isnāt self serviceable is a farmer!
it does not seem like a dust issue. from all appearances itās more like when blinds are pulled up crooked.
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Rudedog
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If/when the cover jams or fails, can you still open it manually?
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the long way downunder
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The hard retractable tonneau was developed outside Rivian by a German manufacturer, BOS, in Michigan.
I imagine their contract includes "serviceability" (does the intended job to the standard of the vehicle and intended customer) not just "operability" (works, no matter how badly.) Meaning it has to do the job quietly and in typical outdoor conditions, not that it just has to open and close no matter how horribly. So the "hey we removed it for your convenience" mumbo jumbo suggests another example of poor communication from Rivian and perhaps their awareness that every customer has reported (a) the top is noisy and slow, and (b) it gets full of dust and grit, and has asked, "what happens when it breaks?"
For all I know, and in speaking with Rivian service and support staff, the mechanism is reliable and presumably tested in its final production design to cycle through opening and closing in harsh conditions (snow, mud, dirt, leaves, sticks and twigs, etc.) for a typical lifespan (say 1000 cycles per year, ten years) without maintenance and a typical failure rate below 1% (wild guess.)
Looking at other examples of where Rivian apparently had to quit R&D and decide "if we're ever going to build this vehicle, we have to stop iterative design and freeze a production specification":
From what I've seen and heard, I imagine Rivian hasn't gotten in front of this problem and doesn't have a response or a plan of action, just the initial "stop selling them" mitigation.
When I raised concerns (day of delivery and for a couple of weeks till doing my own research) the guide and support staff had not heard of BOS and had no information on plans to do anything other than fix it if/when it breaks. I think I've read of one actually malfunctioning. For now, it's just noisy and slow, it gets grit inside the stacker and it doesn't have a complete water seal.
I'm not a design engineer, but the mechanism resembles a stacking garage door (unpopular because ā¦ they're noisy, slow and tend to malfunction ā¦ ) Garage doors stack vertically which solves some problems. The Rivian tonneau stacker connects each panel along the length of its edge, so the "lead" panel is driven to "pull" each subsequent panel out of the stacker, then (presumably) a horizontal feeder retracts each panel and lays it flat on top of the panel below. They've neglected to use a partitioning mechanism (something that holds each panel away from each adjacent panel) perhaps due to space limitations. This would create space for "cam" action to lift and "accelerate" each panel into place to be pulled out by the panel ahead ā that's the noise we're hearing. At present each panel has to instantly accelerate from lying flat to engaging with the panel pulling it out into the tracks to be in the closed position. All of these designs already exist, it's just a matter of what can fit in the available space and be manufactured for mass production at a profitable and competitive price ā¦ guess who's really good at that ā¦ : )
Speaking of space and mass, I wouldn't be surprised to find Tesla already has an R1T and has their own problems getting this military / industrial mechanism working in the Clustertruck. The CT has some advantages (it's a bigger body, so there's more space for a more robust mechanism around the panels and handling the stacker, also, Tesla customers tend to either accept poor design without question, or get shouted down if they do raise any concerns) plus Tesla has rocket scientists, and industrial engineers with a lot of experience in automation, so they can take a whole new level of R&D lifting power to handle this design challenge.
The basic problem is the noise and wear of as each panel contacts each adjacent panel (to pull it open or push it closed.) These are contact points that simply cannot avoid wear. Because the mechanism is open to the weather, it is literally feeding leaves, sticks, windfall, a forgotten phone or just about anything into the mechanism to be chewed up and eventually cause the stacker to malfunction. The striations in the dust suggest a "sweeper" that's not adequately clearing and cleaning the panels. I have an F-150 with a similar hard, retractable tonneau, made by Retrax, it uses a simpler but bulky "spiral" to roll the panels away when open. I keep a small brush with long, soft bristles in the back seat to quickly sweep off windfall and debris. I let snow and rain go into the mechanism. After its first winter, the F-150 cover shows zero wear.
There's at least a few ways to go:
(1) design an entirely new stacker
(2) retrofit serviceable wear points
(3) retrofit an automatic cleaning mechanism
(4) wait and see what Tesla does then copy it without infringing their patents too overtly
A more conventional stacker could initially tip each panel vertically to "drop" debris away from the stacker mechanism. Serviceable wear points would eliminate the noise and create a simple "as needed" field service procedure to maintain under warranty. An automatic cleaning mechanism could use the onboard air to blast the top of each panel before it enters the mechanism with say a brush wiper to physically remove all other debris and detect any obstruction before pulling that panel into the stacker. I'd prefer a "cassette" design where the stacker can be fully removed from the vehicle, leaving the motor, tracks and guides in place (so there's no need for adjustment) just removing the stack of panels. This would create a larger bed space, if only maybe six inches, reduce weight when unneeded, for example when there's a tent or camper shell occupying the bed, and allow for cleaning the whole assembly. It could even reveal a pass-through design to share the gear tunnel volume with the bed or even pass through the rear seats into the cabin space like the mid-gate in the EVlanche. Of course, those forks in the design path have long since been passed, but I imagine they had fun torturing themselves with all those decisions ā¦ and I doubt anyone at Rivian or BOS is happy with where they find themselves today. The real threat of the Rivian tonneau is building 100,000 vehicles by the end of '23 and then suffering a recall of all vehicles to fix whatever gizmo in the apparatus quits first.
I imagine their contract includes "serviceability" (does the intended job to the standard of the vehicle and intended customer) not just "operability" (works, no matter how badly.) Meaning it has to do the job quietly and in typical outdoor conditions, not that it just has to open and close no matter how horribly. So the "hey we removed it for your convenience" mumbo jumbo suggests another example of poor communication from Rivian and perhaps their awareness that every customer has reported (a) the top is noisy and slow, and (b) it gets full of dust and grit, and has asked, "what happens when it breaks?"
For all I know, and in speaking with Rivian service and support staff, the mechanism is reliable and presumably tested in its final production design to cycle through opening and closing in harsh conditions (snow, mud, dirt, leaves, sticks and twigs, etc.) for a typical lifespan (say 1000 cycles per year, ten years) without maintenance and a typical failure rate below 1% (wild guess.)
Looking at other examples of where Rivian apparently had to quit R&D and decide "if we're ever going to build this vehicle, we have to stop iterative design and freeze a production specification":
- the tonneau,
- tailgate,
- spare wheel carrier,
- rear seats,
- camp speaker,
- frunk,
- charge port door,
- wheel and tire,
- suspension tuning,
- suspension noise,
- racks and tie-downs,
- cameras,
- door wind seals,
- aero,
- NVH,
- charging,
- and of course software,
From what I've seen and heard, I imagine Rivian hasn't gotten in front of this problem and doesn't have a response or a plan of action, just the initial "stop selling them" mitigation.
When I raised concerns (day of delivery and for a couple of weeks till doing my own research) the guide and support staff had not heard of BOS and had no information on plans to do anything other than fix it if/when it breaks. I think I've read of one actually malfunctioning. For now, it's just noisy and slow, it gets grit inside the stacker and it doesn't have a complete water seal.
I'm not a design engineer, but the mechanism resembles a stacking garage door (unpopular because ā¦ they're noisy, slow and tend to malfunction ā¦ ) Garage doors stack vertically which solves some problems. The Rivian tonneau stacker connects each panel along the length of its edge, so the "lead" panel is driven to "pull" each subsequent panel out of the stacker, then (presumably) a horizontal feeder retracts each panel and lays it flat on top of the panel below. They've neglected to use a partitioning mechanism (something that holds each panel away from each adjacent panel) perhaps due to space limitations. This would create space for "cam" action to lift and "accelerate" each panel into place to be pulled out by the panel ahead ā that's the noise we're hearing. At present each panel has to instantly accelerate from lying flat to engaging with the panel pulling it out into the tracks to be in the closed position. All of these designs already exist, it's just a matter of what can fit in the available space and be manufactured for mass production at a profitable and competitive price ā¦ guess who's really good at that ā¦ : )
Speaking of space and mass, I wouldn't be surprised to find Tesla already has an R1T and has their own problems getting this military / industrial mechanism working in the Clustertruck. The CT has some advantages (it's a bigger body, so there's more space for a more robust mechanism around the panels and handling the stacker, also, Tesla customers tend to either accept poor design without question, or get shouted down if they do raise any concerns) plus Tesla has rocket scientists, and industrial engineers with a lot of experience in automation, so they can take a whole new level of R&D lifting power to handle this design challenge.
The basic problem is the noise and wear of as each panel contacts each adjacent panel (to pull it open or push it closed.) These are contact points that simply cannot avoid wear. Because the mechanism is open to the weather, it is literally feeding leaves, sticks, windfall, a forgotten phone or just about anything into the mechanism to be chewed up and eventually cause the stacker to malfunction. The striations in the dust suggest a "sweeper" that's not adequately clearing and cleaning the panels. I have an F-150 with a similar hard, retractable tonneau, made by Retrax, it uses a simpler but bulky "spiral" to roll the panels away when open. I keep a small brush with long, soft bristles in the back seat to quickly sweep off windfall and debris. I let snow and rain go into the mechanism. After its first winter, the F-150 cover shows zero wear.
There's at least a few ways to go:
(1) design an entirely new stacker
(2) retrofit serviceable wear points
(3) retrofit an automatic cleaning mechanism
(4) wait and see what Tesla does then copy it without infringing their patents too overtly
A more conventional stacker could initially tip each panel vertically to "drop" debris away from the stacker mechanism. Serviceable wear points would eliminate the noise and create a simple "as needed" field service procedure to maintain under warranty. An automatic cleaning mechanism could use the onboard air to blast the top of each panel before it enters the mechanism with say a brush wiper to physically remove all other debris and detect any obstruction before pulling that panel into the stacker. I'd prefer a "cassette" design where the stacker can be fully removed from the vehicle, leaving the motor, tracks and guides in place (so there's no need for adjustment) just removing the stack of panels. This would create a larger bed space, if only maybe six inches, reduce weight when unneeded, for example when there's a tent or camper shell occupying the bed, and allow for cleaning the whole assembly. It could even reveal a pass-through design to share the gear tunnel volume with the bed or even pass through the rear seats into the cabin space like the mid-gate in the EVlanche. Of course, those forks in the design path have long since been passed, but I imagine they had fun torturing themselves with all those decisions ā¦ and I doubt anyone at Rivian or BOS is happy with where they find themselves today. The real threat of the Rivian tonneau is building 100,000 vehicles by the end of '23 and then suffering a recall of all vehicles to fix whatever gizmo in the apparatus quits first.
FL_EV
Well-Known Member
Mine got stuck on delivery about 1/4 of the way opening from fully closed by the delivery specialist. He said it happens all the time and needs āadjustingā. On a whim, I tried opening it from the dash control instead of the bed push button and it opened all the way. Leaving it that way until SC addresses it on Thursday.
OP
OP
paul_rivianlife
Member
- Thread starter
- #23
Thank you for the comments. I like the idea of a conversion option to manual with the service center. I am going to suggest that. I will let all know how it goes.
Olsonsolar
Well-Known Member
Exactly why I am configured for the manual. Their tonneau is the weak link. They should never have designed it to sit down below the rails. Seriously considering not even getting the manual in hopes of better after market.
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OP
paul_rivianlife
Member
- Thread starter
- #25
Just closing the loop on this. Got it back from service center and all was replaced. Looked like new rails on the bed and obviously the actual cover and motor assembly. Couple of points I noticed, it as has a small section (1" ish) of cover that does not retract when fully retracted and when closing, it seems to slightly slow down when reaching the end and then sealing. Overall, all good. Less than a one day process at the service center and back in action.
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BoltEVowner
Well-Known Member
I have tonneau cover anxiety, especially on an out of town trip...is it going to get stuck in the open position with a lot of stuff back there that I want to keep dry???
Maybe a better option, is to keep opening and closing until it does get stuck, then open a ticket and get it fixed as you did. OR, can we just complain that we are worried, and open a ticket to fix? Would Rivian accept that?
Would be great to know if the "fix" really remedies it permanently or is it a matter of time until it breaks again. Please keep us posted if you have ANY issues!
staples
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I had the same repair with 1" not retracting at the end. When I asked about it, service ran around and looked at other trucks to come back and say "that's the way they all are." I am concerned the cover sticking out that inch might interfere with my motorcycle tire when loaded, or any load that wants to be up against the cab end of the bed, will end up breaking it.
rodhx
Well-Known Member
Wonāt make you feel any better but the tonneau issue to worry about in this scenario is the gaps in the weatherstrip at the tailgate. Iām not sure we can expect things to stay terribly dry under the cover.
OverZealous
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Funny enough, my weatherstripping goes full width. And I operated that tonneau a dozen times yesterday when I picked it up. Never gave me trouble, and didn't sound bad (at all).Wonāt make you feel any better but the tonneau issue to worry about in this scenario is the gaps in the weatherstrip at the tailgate. Iām not sure we can expect things to stay terribly dry under the cover.
I just don't think we hear at all from people who don't have troubleābut who knows, I've only had it for about 18 hours. I believe mine will be fine, though.
SkyBo
Member
Mine is stuck 95% closed after about 2 weeks of ownership. It's been kept clean, and only been operated a handful of times. A ticket was opened 3 days ago, and haven't heard anything. It makes no sound and no attempt to open or close from the button on the bed or from inside. The only troubleshooting step we took on call was a factory infotainment reset. It's hard to imagine dust or debris is the issue considering how clean the truck has been kept, and the fact it seems to make no attempt to open or close.
I really wish there was a way to at least open it manually, because I do need access to the bed... the reason I own a truck.
I really wish there was a way to at least open it manually, because I do need access to the bed... the reason I own a truck.
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