Time For Some New 20" Tires

[Bonobojones]

It's becoming obvious that my original 20" Pirelli Scorps are not going to safely navigate and full winter in the Sierra coming up, so time for a change out. Quick background, my original Rivian Shop just take whatever is available grab back in June 22' came with 21's. Due to my intense work conditions and initial ignorance about conserve mode tire degradation, those babies lasted all of 7,400 miles. I switched out to 20" wheels last November and will get about 32,000 on the 20" scorps. Basically what I would get on my F-250 tires previously due to the roads and demands I put on tires, so I'm not complaining too much. Overall I've been pretty pleased with the Scorps and it wouldn't kill me to just go with another set.
Anyway, just wanted to check with the forum to see if anyone has put 10K+ miles on a different set and has opinions about cost, range, performance. Is there something worth going outside the box for? There have been some posts about what is available, so sorry to clog up the forum. But don't see a lot of feedback about actual results, just what is possible. Party I assume because most of you are like me and just approaching the need for first new set so not a lot of long term data on other tires out there. Interested to see if anyone has put some serious miles on the Nokian, Falken, Toyo, or BF Goodrich options.
Thanks

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[Steamingoat1]

Plus 1. Same boat.

 

[Mathme]

So far I have about 6k on my OEM Scorpions and they seem to be wearing fine. I anticipate getting the usual 25-35k out of them with regular 5-wheel rotations. I've seen lots of "this is what Im going to" but but no a lot of "this has been my experience so far." Like mentioned above, I think this is just a case of we don't have data on new tires to accurately check.

I know IF I decide to stay with the Scorpions, I'll go with the LT version over the OEM. Might as well save over $100/tire and be guaranteed to get the 50k warranty out of them.

 

[Greg Chick]

I'm "tired" of the wondering if it is alignment or just the EV standard for fast wear. Some people say they get 6K, others say 35K on a set. Ok, some rotate the tires, but those that do are they only spreading the wear out and instead of buying 2 sets of front tires are instead buying 1 set of 4 tires, being the same at the end of the wear capacity? I want to know the $math. Ok, driving habits vairy, got that, but some people have had the alignment fixed and get better mileage? I thought if the tires wear evenly without feathering or cupping or wearing more on inside vs the outer tread that the alignment is ok. Is that correct? Can a tire wear evenly and be out of alignment?
If I could get 20K on the fronts and 40 on the rears, I would just replace the fronts twice and rear once and be happy.

 

[jjswan33]

I have found that my Nitto Recon Grapplers are wearing better than my OEM scorpions did (I didn’t get anywhere near 32k miles on my Scorpions though) but that said I wouldn’t recommend them actually for a few reasons:

- They are a little noisier
- The more aggressive tread can cause some squireliness on rough highways
- They don’t have a snow flake rating so likely will not handle snow well (not going to keep them on and find out)

on the plus side

- As I already said better wear profile and durability
- higher load rating
- can run them at higher pressures as needed/wanted
- feel more comfortable airing them down further as needed for off road use
- good off road performance

 

[Greg Chick]

I have found that my Nitto Recon Grapplers are wearing better than my OEM scorpions did (I didn’t get anywhere near 32k miles on my Scorpions though) but that said I wouldn’t recommend them actually for a few reasons:

- They are a little noisier
- The more aggressive tread can cause some squireliness on rough highways
- They don’t have a snow flake rating so likely will not handle snow well (not going to keep them on and find out)

on the plus side

- As I already said better wear profile and durability
- higher load rating
- can run them at higher pressures as needed/wanted
- feel more comfortable airing them down further as needed for off road use
- good off road performance

But they don't come in a 21" do they?

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I'm "tired" of the wondering if it is alignment or just the EV standard for fast wear. Some people say they get 6K, others say 35K on a set. Ok, some rotate the tires, but those that do are they only spreading the wear out and instead of buying 2 sets of front tires are instead buying 1 set of 4 tires, being the same at the end of the wear capacity? I want to know the $math. Ok, driving habits vairy, got that, but some people have had the alignment fixed and get better mileage? I thought if the tires wear evenly without feathering or cupping or wearing more on inside vs the outer tread that the alignment is ok. Is that correct? Can a tire wear evenly and be out of alignment?
If I could get 20K on the fronts and 40 on the rears, I would just replace the fronts twice and rear once and be happy.

It’s weight, torque, tire pressure, tread design, compound, and alignment (plus change in alignment as the vehicle is set to different ride height). Visit a toy store and look for medium to large RC cars with suspension. Press on the bodies to simulate different heights. Observe changes to camber, toe and caster (though caster affects steering, not tire wear). https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-the-different-alignment-settings

 

[Greg Chick]

It’s weight, torque, tire pressure, tread design, compound, and alignment (plus change in alignment as the vehicle is set to different ride height). Visit a toy store and look for medium to large RC cars with suspension. Press on the bodies to simulate different heights. Observe changes to camber, toe and caster (though caster affects steering, not tire wear). https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-the-different-alignment-settings

I get the height issue being wear on tread as well. I just owned many 10,000 lb. trucks that got 40K. mileage on tires. I keep my R1T to standard height and all purpose, 48 PSI, no payload, no launching etc. My hope is the tire makers offer a harder rubber tire. The tread I have seems mild. My Porsche 911 S also ate tires, they said soft traction rubber used on the tires. I went to a harder tire and got better mileage. My 21' size is limited to one tire. I would be willing to have a stiffer and noisier tire.

 

[jjb]

I moved from Truckee CA to N UT and believe any vehicle that lives in the mountains will do better in the winter with real snow tires. I like blizzaks. Also keep in mind blizzaks cost less than the Rivian OEM 20" AT's.

My R1S came with 21's and switched to Rivian 20's. I bought BLIZZAK LT275/65R20 126RE's at Costco for $277 each, in late Nov they will mount them on my 20's at no cost. In the spring I will buy a second set of 20" wheels to put the AT's on.

I drive about 15k a year and will run each set for about 6 months. I don't plan to rotate between seasonal swaps. If I get two (maybe 3) winters out of the blizzaks that is fine. If I get 4 seasons out of the AT's that is fine.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I get the height issue being wear on tread as well. I just owned many 10,000 lb. trucks that got 40K. mileage on tires. I keep my R1T to standard height and all purpose, 48 PSI, no payload, no launching etc. My hope is the tire makers offer a harder rubber tire. The tread I have seems mild. My Porsche 911 S also ate tires, they said soft traction rubber used on the tires. I went to a harder tire and got better mileage. My 21' size is limited to one tire. I would be willing to have a stiffer and noisier tire.

Do they have variable height, variable suspension geometry AND capable of matching the R1's skidpad performance? Apples to oranges.

In general, harder compound = less grip. Engineering is a game of compromises and trade-offs. You cannot have both optimal grip AND optimal tread life. You can have a tire that is "jack of all trades, master of none" (basically what ATs are).

 

[Greg Chick]

Do they have variable height, variable suspension geometry AND capable of matching the R1's skidpad performance? Apples to oranges.

In general, harder compound = less grip. Engineering is a game of compromises and trade-offs. You cannot have both optimal grip AND optimal tread life. You can have a tire that is "jack of all trades, master of none" (basically what ATs are).

OK.

 

[Mikers]

So far I have about 6k on my OEM Scorpions and they seem to be wearing fine. I anticipate getting the usual 25-35k out of them with regular 5-wheel rotations. I've seen lots of "this is what Im going to" but but no a lot of "this has been my experience so far." Like mentioned above, I think this is just a case of we don't have data on new tires to accurately check.

I know IF I decide to stay with the Scorpions, I'll go with the LT version over the OEM. Might as well save over $100/tire and be guaranteed to get the 50k warranty out of them.

My biggest issue with the Scorpions is the noise. They got loud for me at 18K, now I am at 25K and they are near the end of their tread life. I would love to hear about other peoples experience with different tires as per the original posters request. At this point I am looking for an all season 275/65/R20 (don't want to mess with vehicle settings). Thinking I will get the Continental TerrainContact H/T in that size, but surprisingly haven't seen heard of anybody else doing the same.

 

[IHScout]

My biggest issue with the Scorpions is the noise. They got loud for me at 18K, now I am at 25K and they are near the end of their tread life. I would love to hear about other peoples experience with different tires as per the original posters request. At this point I am looking for an all season 275/65/R20 (don't want to mess with vehicle settings). Thinking I will get the Continental TerrainContact H/T in that size, but surprisingly haven't seen heard of anybody else doing the same.

I am having the same issues on noise as you are and definitely looking at the Continental.

 

[ksurfier]

Choice is pretty simple.
Want/need 34-inch tires? Keep the same Scorpion AT Tire (275/65R20), the only 275/65R20 under 50 pounds. If range is not an issue then this is the easiest choice.

Is 33-inch and Snow ok? Then 275/60R20 - Continental Terrain Contact H/T (44 pounds) or Kumho CRUGEN HT51 (41 pounds). I would prob. go with the Continental. Might be challenging to find a shop willing to install these if ratings slightly too low.

33-inch and don't care about Snow? 275/60R20 Michelin Defender or the Pirelli AS+ 3 (most reviews slightly favor the AS+ 3). The defender is 2 pounds heavier than the AS+ 3 (but AS+ 3 load rating is 115 instead of 116). If towing is a concern then need the Defender is 116.

Getting the right tire is a different process for each person. If beefy off-road tires are your thing then it's really hard to beat the OEM Scorpion AT. The heavier tires will have more tradeoffs and will drag the range down.

For those pushing the envelope there are the <40 pound tires that will offer the most efficient miles and greater range.

From the cost perspective, tires run $0.05 per mile plus or minus a penny. Someone with a big heavy tire is going to average <2 mi/kw (500 wh/mile), while the middle range will be 2.2-2.4 (420 wh/mile), and a high range will be 2.6 (385 wh/mile) or so. With a $0.25 Kwh, that will be $0.11 plus or minus a penny. So really not much savings to be had either way. Cheap tires with high efficiency (low weight) will cost $1,400 per 10,000 miles while the less efficient and more expensive tires will cost $1,800 per 10,000 miles. With EVs, one of the best approaches is to accept the fact that you'll be lucky to get half the warrantee mileage from a tire and sometimes going with the cheaper tires is better in the long run.

Range wise, heavy tires will be ~250 miles, middle will be as much as 300 miles, and the more efficient tires will get up to ~330 miles (or more).

All things being equal, seems to me the easiest choice is to get the 33" Michelin that Costco sells which is the same as the Defender (Michelin - X LT A/S 2 - 275/60R20). Cost is ~$1,100 and you get the Costco benefits for rotating and maintenance.

 

[Mikers]

Choice is pretty simple.
Want/need 34-inch tires? Keep the same Scorpion AT Tire (275/65R20), the only 275/65R20 under 50 pounds. If range is not an issue then this is the easiest choice.

Is 33-inch and Snow ok? Then 275/60R20 - Continental Terrain Contact H/T (44 pounds) or Kumho CRUGEN HT51 (41 pounds). I would prob. go with the Continental. Might be challenging to find a shop willing to install these if ratings slightly too low.

33-inch and don't care about Snow? 275/60R20 Michelin Defender or the Pirelli AS+ 3 (most reviews slightly favor the AS+ 3). The defender is 2 pounds heavier than the AS+ 3 (but AS+ 3 load rating is 115 instead of 116). If towing is a concern then need the Defender is 116.

Getting the right tire is a different process for each person. If beefy off-road tires are your thing then it's really hard to beat the OEM Scorpion AT. The heavier tires will have more tradeoffs and will drag the range down.

For those pushing the envelope there are the <40 pound tires that will offer the most efficient miles and greater range.

From the cost perspective, tires run $0.05 per mile plus or minus a penny. Someone with a big heavy tire is going to average <2 mi/kw (500 wh/mile), while the middle range will be 2.2-2.4 (420 wh/mile), and a high range will be 2.6 (385 wh/mile) or so. With a $0.25 Kwh, that will be $0.11 plus or minus a penny. So really not much savings to be had either way. Cheap tires with high efficiency (low weight) will cost $1,400 per 10,000 miles while the less efficient and more expensive tires will cost $1,800 per 10,000 miles. With EVs, one of the best approaches is to accept the fact that you'll be lucky to get half the warrantee mileage from a tire and sometimes going with the cheaper tires is better in the long run.

Range wise, heavy tires will be ~250 miles, middle will be as much as 300 miles, and the more efficient tires will get up to ~330 miles (or more).

All things being equal, seems to me the easiest choice is to get the 33" Michelin that Costco sells which is the same as the Defender (Michelin - X LT A/S 2 - 275/60R20). Cost is ~$1,100 and you get the Costco benefits for rotating and maintenance.

That all makes sense. I am going with the Continental HT Terrain Contact in 275/65/R20. I want a quiet, durable, well handling tire that has adequate load and speed rating and don't want to mess with vehicle settings. Do not want all terrain or are too concerned about snow. I am wondering how much the 9lbs of additional weight might make? I am hoping to get similar range as I am thinking rolling resistance should be slightly better than the stock Pirelli All Terrains, but not sure. Wondering what I should inflate these to (Max PSI is 80 but that's for 126 load rating)?

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