Donald Stanfield
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FOMA?
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Announcing our new "CLUBS" section where you can join or create a Rivian club or group! You can use this new feature to conveniently plan and discuss local events, gatherings or other club/group related topics.
So we encourage you to join (or start) special-interest and regional-based Rivian clubs at: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/group-categories/clubs-groups.1/
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Phatman113
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- Foma, a term meaning "harmless untruths" from the fictional religion Bokononism in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle
Phatman113
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His stock portfolio with Rivian shorts on it?
zipzag
Well-Known Member
He seems to own a Rivian. Also, there are much better ways to go after RIVN than max pack. R1 demand is hardly a problem. Rivian is doing max pack because 1) they said they would and 2) It's a good long term differentiator to sell higher end R1.
Also most of the upcoming higher end truckish vehicles will offer longer range if North American centric. So Rivian doesn't want range to become a competitive disadvantage.
In the last year the crapiness of CCS charging in North America has become more apparent and many higher end buyers will want more range, regardless of true necessity.
Last quarter Tesla opened more than one new Supercharger location per day on average. Tesla doing really well at charging makes CCS look worse. If Tesla was also kind of crappy at Supercharger I expect potential CCS vehicle buyers would be more accepting at the state of non-Tesla charging.
If Rivian was remotely close to the original RAN buildout promise their chargers would be a significant advantage. It still is a plus, of course.
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the long way downunder
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RAM REV XR announced today … 229 kWh with 500 miles' range, plus a range extender (no specifications or details.) Due "soon after late 2024" (whatever that means.) I imagine it's going to be a heavy one, complex and expensive, but if you really need an EV to tow and don't mind the, what $120K sticker (?), then it's got the bragging rights.
I'm sorely disappointed that Rivian quit the Max Pack and I think of quad motors as the core of the R1, so even though I'm holding the reservation, I don't know that it will ever work out in my case.
Which will come first, Max Pack or the 229 kWh RAM?
I'm sorely disappointed that Rivian quit the Max Pack and I think of quad motors as the core of the R1, so even though I'm holding the reservation, I don't know that it will ever work out in my case.
Which will come first, Max Pack or the 229 kWh RAM?
zefram47
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Yeah, saw that announcement today. If they can really produce a truck with a battery the size of the Hummer's and efficiency around a Rivian I think they'll have a hit on their hands.
zipzag
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Ford is more likely to build an efficient large truck than Dodge. Ford made a major investment in building lightweight F150 that is now paying off with EV.
Rivian has not demonstrated the ability to build a light weight vehicle. The R2 will need to do better.
Scoiatael
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Will it pay off? A lot of people have been abandoning their F150 Lightning orders, there are still crazy markups from some dealers, and they just did another price increase which cause some people to cancel their reservations. Ford did a good job with the F150 Lightning engineering wise, but they are failing in every other area.
White Shadow
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400 mile range is the sweet spot for EVs, IMO.
I honestly think that's the number EV makers should target if they hope to get the masses to switch out of ICE vehicles. And to be honest, an EV rated for 400 miles of range will probably see maybe 320 miles on average if you consider all the different environmental factors...
So I hope ALL the EV companies will put whatever size battery is needed to get at least a 400 mile rated range, knowing that the actual range will be quite a bit lower than that. And FWIW, the same is mostly true of ICE vehicles. On paper, my Jeep is capable of running 615 miles on a full tank of gas (that's based on 24.6 gallon tank at 25 mpg), but in reality I'll use about 22 gallons before refueling and I'll get about 22 mpg on a road trip, so that puts me at an honest 484 miles of range.
I honestly think that's the number EV makers should target if they hope to get the masses to switch out of ICE vehicles. And to be honest, an EV rated for 400 miles of range will probably see maybe 320 miles on average if you consider all the different environmental factors...
So I hope ALL the EV companies will put whatever size battery is needed to get at least a 400 mile rated range, knowing that the actual range will be quite a bit lower than that. And FWIW, the same is mostly true of ICE vehicles. On paper, my Jeep is capable of running 615 miles on a full tank of gas (that's based on 24.6 gallon tank at 25 mpg), but in reality I'll use about 22 gallons before refueling and I'll get about 22 mpg on a road trip, so that puts me at an honest 484 miles of range.
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JohnB R1T
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^^^^^THIS^^^^
Once competition heats up (real or perceived...right now it's only perceived except for Ford) this will be crucial.
And...don't discount the capability of the "gubmint" to completely destroy the small diesel truck market as well as the "large-engine-tow-capable ICE pickup truck" market with the quick implementation of a few regulations. Look what happened to older existing vehicles when they took sulfur out of diesel fuel...or, for that matter...when they took lead out of gasoline.
Once the legacy automakers are in-tune with producing PHEVs & BEVs in the truck segment, this is a no-brainer. Even Toyota (who has yet to give a red-hot damn about fuel economy in their truck line) will be jumping on board at some point. I can't believe that "the people who brought you the Prius" are so late to this party.
brancky3
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Not without a new architecture. Power would be limited by voltage, not capacity.
Dark-Fx
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They absolutely can run a higher current through if there are more cells.
zipzag
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The vast majority of people do not need 400 miles range. Upscale buyers want it, and potential EV owners have theoretical range anxiety.
Many higher income people never do longer distance driving vacations. Middle income new car buyers may like more range but won't actually pay for it.
Tesla thinks there is a very large market for a nice $25K 220 mile range vehicle.
White Shadow
Well-Known Member
The market you're talking about thinks of EVs as a commuter car and not their only car. It's true that not everybody does 5-hour road trips, but lots of people do. And a 220 mile range EV isn't going to win many customers away from their ICE vehicles if those people do anything more than the daily commute with them. The end game here is to move towards electrification for everyone. That's why we need long range EVs. So until we see longer ranges AND quicker charge times, EVs just aren't going to be mainstream. There will be too many people who won't be interested.
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