Tesla revises range estimates

[RealBillNye]

I gave a size example, adding 25kwh to a 80 kwh pack wouldn't be that dramatic of an efficiency change, and to me being able go get a"full charge" faster would be awesome. Imagine being able to add back the entire capacity of what you can use on a car in less than 30 minutes. So have a model y with a 100kwh battery pack, but only be able to use 75kwh of that at all you'd be able to recharge that 75kwh faster is what I mean

You still have to pay for the battery size (cost and mass). Artificially limiting a 100 kwhr battery to use 75 kwhr is not going to charge any different than if you the consumer decide to only charge to 75% SOC with that same battery. The only difference being that you can't use that extra 25 kwhr for road trips if the mfg limits it for you.

Sponsored

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Next hopeful milestone: Rivian should remove the city portion of their EPA estimate from their range number. When people look at range, they are thinking of road trips, not driving in the city. The city number artificially increases the blended EPA range and makes it less accurate for trips. I think this may be what Tesla has done just now.

I disagree with this. 99% of my driving is done in the city and I do frequently run tons of errands in a day. I like to know what my city range is and would use that number for ICE vehicles as well.

 

[RealBillNye]

I disagree because the customer wouldn't know, and when it's really cold or really hot you wouldn't see your range drop faster than you were actually traveling. This thread was about stated range and range estimates, my point is that a dedicated small battery strictly for hvac would make range estimates more realistic

Alternatively you could have a mapping system that accurately takes those factors into account. Reserving a significant portion of the battery just for HVAC use is a very costly way to solve that issue.

 

[SlaterGS]

I disagree because the customer wouldn't know, and when it's really cold or really hot you wouldn't see your range drop faster than you were actually traveling. This thread was about stated range and range estimates, my point is that a dedicated small battery strictly for hvac would make range estimates more realistic

What you want is newer battery tech that allows for charging to 100% without any negative impact on the cells. I believe this is coming, but I don't follow it all that closely. No thought needed when charging, no additional cost and weight in the vehicle for such a large buffer.

Otherwise you will piss off a lot of customers that have paid for the larger battery in one way or another (even if they are told it is a lower amount, the extra isn't free).

 

[Throwdown]

Alternatively you could have a mapping system that accurately takes those factors into account. Reserving a significant portion of the battery just for HVAC use is a very costly way to solve that issue.

I'm not talking about reserving a portion of the battery I'm talking about having a completly separate part. And if mapping that is possible then why don't they? Again my point is that it would fix range estimations particularly for new ev owners. To give you an example last night I drove to dinner in my truck with the hvac off. I got done, it was cold I turned the hvac on and traveled one mile and my range dropped by ten miles, that's dumb as hell.

 

[Golfer04]

This would only encourage more confusion than there already is. People already think that you cant ever charge above 80% which just isn't true. Charging to 100% for a road trip every so often is not going to have a significant effect on the battery and the vast majority of people don't get anywhere near the 80% daily recommended limit on a normal basis.

IMO, range isn't the issue. They almost all go far enough (although the winter issue can be bad in a Rivian). The issue is recharge speed, and availability & location of working chargers. With red state political inertia and just trying to deal with 3,000 electrical suppliers and 50 different sets of state laws I doubt this gets fixed. I used to be optimistic, but not any more. In retrospect government shouldn't be subsidizing vehicles without the infrastructure in place. Makes for a poor first ownership experience which sets the entire industry back.

 

[SlaterGS]

I disagree because the customer wouldn't know, and when it's really cold or really hot you wouldn't see your range drop faster than you were actually traveling.

You sir, have not been on this forum long enough.

 

[Throwdown]

What you want is newer battery tech that allows for charging to 100% without any negative impact on the cells. I believe this is coming, but I don't follow it all that closely. No thought needed when charging, no additional cost and weight in the vehicle for such a large buffer.

Otherwise you will piss off a lot of customers that have paid for the larger battery in one way or another (even if they are told it is a lower amount, the extra isn't free).

Basically, yes. Until that happens there are ways to make range estimates more accurate and suitable for the real world. I love my truck I like that the range estimate doesn't bounce all over the place like other evs do but it all could be better than it is and I believe that would help with people on the fence about evs

 

[NineElectrics]

My Recurrent report says my current expected range is 295 miles and EPA range is 310 miles. That 's a loss of 15 miles in 5.5yrs/57k miles. In terms of percentage is a loss of 4.8%

Not sure why you are seeing such a large degradation so early???

In my experience, the rate of degradation slows over time. There was an initial hit, and then it tails off. So, my numbers aren’t incompatible with yours. Charging outdoors a lot may have also made it worse. Or I could just have been unlucky.

So far my R1S isn’t degrading much at all at 20K miles. I’m very pleased with that!

Quoting the 95% number makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe also quoting summer/winter numbers.

 

[Throwdown]

You sir, have not been on this forum long enough.

Well I mean as much as having a part they can't interface with on any car they wouldn't know about it.

 

[SlaterGS]

Well I mean as much as having a part they can't interface with on any car they wouldn't know about it.

I think the challenge is range really only matters when you go on a road trip unless you are super focused on mi/kWh on every little errand.
For most Americans that is likely <5% of their annual driving (total WAG).

On top of that, the poor range estimates tend to impact those in colder climates.
To lock away or ear mark something like battery or even power for something that may not be utilized by everyone or utilized very rarely doesn't make a lot of sense. If I was in a climate that rarely used any HVAC and I knew I had an extra 20kW just sitting for HVAC use so I had more accurate numbers on the complete pack then I would not be very happy knowing I still had to pay for that extra capacity that is unused.

IMO Rivian is conservative on their estimates.
Last trip, temps in the upper 30's, I started at 100% and was estimated to get to the charger with 75mi. I got there with 140mi on the estimate. Get past your 1 mile trips and it levels out or does even better and that is where it matters.

 

[NC-Rivian]

https://flip.it/Lp0RAJ

Meh ... In addition to my Tee, I drive a MYLR and I can tell you that the MY range estimates are merely figments of someone's silicon imagination. I don't trust any number that Tesla puts out there.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

And yet the Teslarati keeps buying and defending Musk.

 

[rohitgarewal]

There is no chance any manufacturer is going to willingly reduce the max range they can market to be more realistic.
Whether in regards to battery degradation, weather, all highway driving, etc.
Would be nice, but there are way too many variables and I don't see anyone reducing their competitive advantage unless the industry is forced to with new testing methodology from the EPA.

The exception here is Porsche. They continuously undersell their range as they expect their cars to be driven hard. The Taycan often exceeds its stated range (and charges the fastest to boot).

 

[Rivian Head]

Another funny detail about Tesla: in my experience, the battery degrades 2-5% within the first 20K miles, but they never quote the degraded range. Really they should quote the average range over three years of use. It’s annoying to lose 5% of range in a new car just one year after buying it. Now your 300 mile car has 285 miles of range.

I have owned 3 Teslas and 2 Rivians. I think both batteries are similar in chemistry, and sourced similarly, thus should degrade about the same. I must say Tesla has better thermal management with heat pump etc. I just sold 2016 model X. In 7&1/2 years, it lost about 12% of range which I am happy about. Again I seldom used Superchargers and conditioned in 50 deg garage even in winter. Time will tell if Lithium Phosphate does any better.

Sponsored