Rivian patents “Energy Storage Device” (Tesla Powerwall-like home energy storage system?)

[R1TS]

As time goes on I’m becoming less optimistic that V2H is happening. Here’s why: how do you reconcile battery power backup with a federally mandated vehicle battery warranty of 10years/100k miles? If I’m a manufacturer I don’t want my batteries needlessly cycling running a household when I’m on the hook for 10 years. Rivian is even more extreme since the warranty period is 150k on the batteries.

Federally mandated battery warranty of 10 years/100k miles??

Sponsored

 

[Riviam]

The draw on a battery for powering a house is so much less than driving an EV.

I average 15 kWh a day at my house excluding EV charging. Powering my house for 24 hours would be like driving 25 minutes at 70 mph in my R1S. If I lost power for 30 full days over the course of a year it would be like driving an additional 900 very slow easy miles on the battery.

The minimal strain on EV batteries powering a house is why there is a life for them to power houses after they are no longer capable of EV use.

Depends. You have a really low usage rate. I use 160kWh per day (larger family, more extreme seasonal temps, all appliances are electric including home heating). Admittedly I’m probably on the high end but the average EV user is probably somewhere in the middle?

 

[SANZC02]

Depends. You have a really low usage rate. I use 160kWh per day (larger family, more extreme seasonal temps, all appliances are electric including home heating). Admittedly I’m probably on the high end but the average EV user is probably somewhere in the middle?

Wow that is a lot of electricity. Here in Orange County CA even if all of that was off peak usage the bill would be around $1,100 a month.

My usage is very low, live near the CA coast, rarely use heat or AC, have all led lights, etc. According to the US Energy Information Administration average US residential electricty consumption in the US is around 10,500 kWh per year which is just under 29 kWh a day.

 

[Riviam]

Wow that is a lot of electricity. Here in Orange County CA even if all of that was off peak usage the bill would be around $1,100 a month.

My usage is very low, live near the CA coast, rarely use heat or AC, have all led lights, etc. According to the US Energy Information Administration average US residential electricty consumption in the US is around 10,500 kWh per year which is just under 29 kWh a day.

I’m jealous of your usage! Yes that’s the average, but I’d submit, that more affluent buyers of EVs and home electrification in general (given the current price hurdles) use more than the average.

 

[BigSkies]

Wow that is a lot of electricity. Here in Orange County CA even if all of that was off peak usage the bill would be around $1,100 a month.

My usage is very low, live near the CA coast, rarely use heat or AC, have all led lights, etc. According to the US Energy Information Administration average US residential electricty consumption in the US is around 10,500 kWh per year which is just under 29 kWh a day.

This can vary so much. In Denver, my non-EV, non-HVAC usage is in the 10-15kWh/day range. And this includes a heat-pump water heater. I imagine that's pretty common usage. But HVAC completely changes the calculations.

My highly efficient heat-pump uses about 6,000kWh/yr. Mostly in the winter. We had a day where the temps got down to -16, and my heat pump used over 100kWh in a single day.

 

[Forager]

Federally mandated battery warranty of 10 years/100k miles??

Correction, it’s 8 years/100k. California requires 10 years/150k. This is for the batteries of any BEV, Hybrid, PHEV.

 

[R1TS]

Correction, it’s 8 years/100k. California requires 10 years/150k. This is for the batteries of any BEV, Hybrid, PHEV.

No. That’s incorrect.
Even Rivian is just 8 years/150k for dual.

 

[Riviam]

This can vary so much. In Denver, my non-EV, non-HVAC usage is in the 10-15kWh/day range. And this includes a heat-pump water heater. I imagine that's pretty common usage. But HVAC completely changes the calculations.

My highly efficient heat-pump uses about 6,000kWh/yr. Mostly in the winter. We had a day where the temps got down to -16, and my heat pump used over 100kWh in a single day.

What do you use to measure consumption of different home components? Have seen devices like Sense that do this but wasn’t sure how effective they were.

 

[BigSkies]

What do you use to measure consumption of different home components? Have seen devices like Sense that do this but wasn’t sure how effective they were.

I have both the Sense and Emporia home energy monitors.

I bought the Emporia after getting frustrated with Sense's device detection. Sense will never detect the Rivian or my heat-pump. It's detected a large number of devices, it just happens to fail at the largest energy users.

That being said, I still use the Sense app more frequently than the Emporia app. Emporia's UI is pretty terrible, and Sense's visualizations give you much more actionable information.

For example, Sense has a power meter so that you can view a real-time graph of what is happening in your house. You can watch the power meter as you turn various things on/off to get a feel for how much energy it uses. I can also get a good idea of what is running at any time with a bubble graph. Even though it hasn't detected my Rivian or heat pump, it's pretty obvious which of those is running, and Sense will tell me about everything else.

I do highly recommend a home energy monitor, but it's hard to give a recommendation for a specific brand. The two main competitors each suck in their own unique way.

I'd say get the Sense if you're interested in experimentation and seeing what your house is doing in real time. Pair it with some Kasa smart plugs for devices Sense is unlikely to detect on its own.

I'd say to get the Emporia if you're the type of person that might open the app a few times a year to see what's using energy.

 

[Riviam]

I have both the Sense and Emporia home energy monitors.

I bought the Emporia after getting frustrated with Sense's device detection. Sense will never detect the Rivian or my heat-pump. It's detected a large number of devices, it just happens to fail at the largest energy users.

That being said, I still use the Sense app more frequently than the Emporia app. Emporia's UI is pretty terrible, and Sense's visualizations give you much more actionable information.

For example, Sense has a power meter so that you can view a real-time graph of what is happening in your house. You can watch the power meter as you turn various things on/off to get a feel for how much energy it uses. I can also get a good idea of what is running at any time with a bubble graph. Even though it hasn't detected my Rivian or heat pump, it's pretty obvious which of those is running, and Sense will tell me about everything else.

I do highly recommend a home energy monitor, but it's hard to give a recommendation for a specific brand. The two main competitors each suck in their own unique way.

I'd say get the Sense if you're interested in experimentation and seeing what your house is doing in real time. Pair it with some Kasa smart plugs for devices Sense is unlikely to detect on its own.

I'd say to get the Emporia if you're the type of person that might open the app a few times a year to see what's using energy.

Really helpful, thanks! In my part of the country, summers are brutal (95-105*F, high humidity) and require a good bit of conditioned air, and the winters are decently cold (25*-40*) requiring the heat pump to run a good bit. Spring and fall type weather seem shorter here. Along with a large electric water heater, that makes up a large bit of our consumption, but I'd love to see exactly how much.

 

[nc10]

https://electrek.co/2023/12/29/rivian-planning-tesla-powerwall-home-energy-system/

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/20230420759

What do you see as the "invention" Rivian is claiming ?

I guess this application will get granted, but I hope not. Not claiming any kind of battery technology or storage capability, but listing a lot of indicators and sensors and status lights and connections to computers or devices, almost as if they just wanted block others from designing energy storage systems for your home. trying to cover every display and connectability aspect they could think of. Nothing seems to be described in much detail, almost trivial.

 

[BigSkies]

Really helpful, thanks! In my part of the country, summers are brutal (95-105*F, high humidity) and require a good bit of conditioned air, and the winters are decently cold (25*-40*) requiring the heat pump to run a good bit. Spring and fall type weather seem shorter here. Along with a large electric water heater, that makes up a large bit of our consumption, but I'd love to see exactly how much.

This is one of the best uses of a home energy monitor. It gives you the information to quantify (or at least guestimate) energy efficiency improvements. I also found some random energy users I didn't expect, like a comically oversized radon fan using $100 of electricity a year.

One of the highest ROI projects I've done was switching to a heat-pump water heater. It was a couple hundred a year in energy savings, although I converted from gas. As a rule of thumb, I'd expect it to cut your water heating energy use by 50% to 66%.

 

[nc10]

Really helpful, thanks! In my part of the country, summers are brutal (95-105*F, high humidity) and require a good bit of conditioned air, and the winters are decently cold (25*-40*) requiring the heat pump to run a good bit. Spring and fall type weather seem shorter here. Along with a large electric water heater, that makes up a large bit of our consumption, but I'd love to see exactly how much.

I also have an Emporia Vue system. Came with clamp on sensors that you clamp on specific circuits in your breaker box, along with a transmitter. Also incluced senors for the main power feed. So you can check your clothes dryer, refrig, hvac, freezer circuits, and get a pretty good idea. Mostly picked Emporia because it was cheaper than some of the other systems. The numbers make sense. It was pretty easy to install if you're ok with taking the cover off of your breaker box. I think I had to connect one wire inside the breaker box to power the transmitter, but the clamp on sensors were easy to put in place.

Sponsored