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R1S flat towing behind an RV?

Gshenderson

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Seriously, do not see the difference there?
Seriously, can you not take a joke? You take yourself WAY to serious (while constantly being condescending to others). I bet you are a lot of fun at parties.
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JLiz5

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It is software. They could easily just have the toad be powered and essentially be driving itself with steering from the tow vehicle. This toad could help with acceleration and braking which would essentially turn the tow vehicle into a hybrid.
Even if this were possible I’m struggling to understand how the Rivian would contribute to the acceleration and braking of a large motor home. Class A and Class Super C RVs can have a GVWR of up to 54,000 lbs, I would question the ability of a Rivian effectively assisting in either direction. Additionally, I would be concerned the stress of expecting a vehicle to perform these tasks on such a load would be detrimental to the longevity of the towed vehicle. The supplemental braking systems on RVs are designed to brake the towed vehicle and in the event of a break away bring the towed vehicle to a stop. It is not designed to supplement braking of the coach.
 

Trandall

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This toad could help with acceleration and braking which would essentially turn the tow vehicle into a hybrid.
wait what... toads can drive! ?
 

CappyJax

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Even if this were possible I’m struggling to understand how the Rivian would contribute to the acceleration and braking of a large motor home. Class A and Class Super C RVs can have a GVWR of up to 54,000 lbs, I would question the ability of a Rivian effectively assisting in either direction. Additionally, I would be concerned the stress of expecting a vehicle to perform these tasks on such a load would be detrimental to the longevity of the towed vehicle. The supplemental braking systems on RVs are designed to brake the towed vehicle and in the event of a break away bring the towed vehicle to a stop. It is not designed to supplement braking of the coach.
Almost certainly the Rivian will produce more power than the motor home. And assisting doesn’t mean it is doing everything itself, it just aids in acceleration and braking.

And if you are worried about longevity, you don’t want to flat tow at all.
 

CappyJax

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I said "I doubt that would be allowed (or safe) with current tow hardware."

I don't think it's "allowed" by the current DOT rules and laws.

I don't think it's "safe" and therefore personal responsibility should also prevail.

I didn't say that the manufacturer should install accelerometers and cameras to try to detect if the towed vehicle is applying torque and if it exceeds a certain threshold then it can use a cellular connection to dispatch law enforcement, and then a satellite with cold-war-style telephoto lense can read your license plate and a mainframe will lookup your VIN and then it'll call a secret API that all auto manufacturers have agreed to implement by which your car will be remotely shut off and your doors locked so the highway patrol can come shoot you like a fish in a barrel.

Seriously, do not see the difference there?
Why wouldn’t it be safe?
 

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CommodoreAmiga

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Why wouldn’t it be safe?
Standard tow setup is either a 2" or 2+5/16" ball with a coupler and safety chains. That connection is meant for the front vehicle to PULL a load behind it. friction/drag causes the trailer to want to remain straight, behind the towing vehicle. If the trailer applies power to push the towing vehicle, the towing connection does not prevent the trailer from pushing against the steering desire of the towing vehicle. This is not safe.

Furthermore, what happens if the tow connection breaks? In a conventional setup, the safety chains (which should be criss-crossed) should "catch" the tongue of the trailer, and the natural friction/drag will keep the trailer straight and behind the tow vehicle and you can effectively let off the accelerator and coast to a stop.

However, if the trailer is providing pushing force, then the trailer would almost immediately accelerate into the vehicle and cause a high speed collision.

Some of these problems can be solved with additional sensors and software... But at that point you're better off re-designing the tow connection, anyway.
 

CappyJax

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Standard tow setup is either a 2" or 2+5/16" ball with a coupler and safety chains. That connection is meant for the front vehicle to PULL a load behind it. friction/drag causes the trailer to want to remain straight, behind the towing vehicle. If the trailer applies power to push the towing vehicle, the towing connection does not prevent the trailer from pushing against the steering desire of the towing vehicle. This is not safe.

Furthermore, what happens if the tow connection breaks? In a conventional setup, the safety chains (which should be criss-crossed) should "catch" the tongue of the trailer, and the natural friction/drag will keep the trailer straight and behind the tow vehicle and you can effectively let off the accelerator and coast to a stop.

However, if the trailer is providing pushing force, then the trailer would almost immediately accelerate into the vehicle and cause a high speed collision.

Some of these problems can be solved with additional sensors and software... But at that point you're better off re-designing the tow connection, anyway.
Stopping applies the exact same force on the hitch as acceleration would.

The hitch braking free would cause the wires to disconnect and you would have the software apply the brakes. Exactly like any other toad or trailer.
 

ERguy

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Stopping applies the exact same force on the hitch as acceleration would.
I don't think you understand how flat towing a vehicle works. Stopping does not place much force at all on the towbar because people who flat tow behind motorhomes use auxillary brakes in the vehicle being towed to prevent that from happening.

Towbars are designed to withstand the forces of the motorhome accelerating and pulling the toad. They are not designed to absorb forces in the opposite direction. You can't use the toad to push the motorhome or help it accelerate in any way.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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Stopping applies the exact same force on the hitch as acceleration would.

The hitch braking free would cause the wires to disconnect and you would have the software apply the brakes. Exactly like any other toad or trailer.
Not necessarily. If you’re using safety chains the wiring would stay connected unless you have a really short lead.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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I don't think you understand how flat towing a vehicle works. Stopping does not place much force at all on the towbar because people who flat tow behind motorhomes use auxillary brakes in the vehicle being towed to prevent that from happening.
Only the Sith speak in absolutes. I know a few people who two behind motorhomes and they don’t have any brakes active on the towed vehicle.
Towbars are designed to withstand the forces of the motorhome accelerating and pulling the toad. They are not designed to absorb forces in the opposite direction. You can't use the toad to push the motorhome or help it accelerate in any way.
First you say I don’t understand towing, and then you completely agree with what I already said? Which is it boy-o?
 

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ERguy

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First you say I don’t understand towing, and then you completely agree with what I already said? Which is it boy-o?
I don't agree with anything you said.

Also... Your "I know somebody who..." anecdotes mean nothing. Nobody tows anything the size of a Rivian without brakes. If they did, they would not only place undue stress on their rig, they would be in violation of state laws most everywhere they drove.
 
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CommodoreAmiga

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I don't agree with anything you said.
And yet you said this, which is EXACTLY what I've been saying:

Towbars are designed to withstand the forces of the motorhome accelerating and pulling the toad. They are not designed to absorb forces in the opposite direction. You can't use the toad to push the motorhome or help it accelerate in any way.
Also... Your "I know somebody who..." anecdotes mean nothing. Nobody tows anything the size of a Rivian without brakes. If they did, they would not only place undue stress on their rig, they would be in violation of state laws most everywhere they drove.
I'm probably just going to add you to my ignore list, because I don't like being called a liar. My good friend tows a 1998 Jeep Wrangler TJ with a manual transmission behind his RV. He doesn't have any special brakes on the Jeep, and just has a set of magnetic brake lights with a long cord that he sticks on the back of the Jeep.
 

CappyJax

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I don't think you understand how flat towing a vehicle works. Stopping does not place much force at all on the towbar because people who flat tow behind motorhomes use auxillary brakes in the vehicle being towed to prevent that from happening.

Towbars are designed to withstand the forces of the motorhome accelerating and pulling the toad. They are not designed to absorb forces in the opposite direction. You can't use the toad to push the motorhome or help it accelerate in any way.
I tow my car and it has a surge brake. That means it must apply a force to the tow vehicle in order to be applied. But regardless, the tow vehicle still needs to be able to stop both vehicles if the toad vehicle brake were to fail. The tow bars are indeed designed to transit force in both directions.
 

CappyJax

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Not necessarily. If you’re using safety chains the wiring would stay connected unless you have a really short lead.
Then the brake would still be applied, because the driver is going to hit the brakes when they hear the nose of that tower dragging.
 

CappyJax

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I don't agree with anything you said.

Also... Your "I know somebody who..." anecdotes mean nothing. Nobody tows anything the size of a Rivian without brakes. If they did, they would not only place undue stress on their rig, they would be in violation of state laws most everywhere they drove.
A 36,000 pound motorhome towing an 8,000 pound truck experiences a smaller impact than a 5,000 pound vehicle pulling a 2,000 pound trailer which doesn't require a brake in many places.

Since a tow bar is rigid, it can transit loads equally well in either direction.
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