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R1 vs Model S pricing

Kenshaka

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You’re missing the point. My question is about the cost to build a vehicle with a 105kWh vs 180kWh battery. I can also add that Rivian uses four motors vs only two in the S. Why isn’t the Rivian more expensive than the S?
I’ve wondered the same thing
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hroussel

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Might want to look at Lucid, the lower end models looks like may be in the Model S price range but look like might be actually a better car. The initial ones are the high end but later will be the lower priced ones.

There is an article online where someone drove it from LA to SF on a single charge
Indeed from a specs (and price) point of view the Air Touring seems like a good car to add to the list, but the styling doesn't really inspires me. And I have a feeling we might not see it until 2023 here in Canada.
 

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Indeed from a specs (and price) point of view the Air Touring seems like a good car to add to the list, but the styling doesn't really inspires me. And I have a feeling we might not see it until 2023 here in Canada.
Plus, going with a new start up has a ton of risk in terms of service and support. I’m willing to take that risk with the Rivian because there is nothing else available in the R1S or R1T class: biggish EVs that can actually go off road. Given Tesla is a known quantity my desire to try the Lucid is much much lower.
 

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You’re missing the point. My question is about the cost to build a vehicle with a 105kWh vs 180kWh battery. I can also add that Rivian uses four motors vs only two in the S. Why isn’t the Rivian more expensive than the S?
Considering they jacked the price up on the S by 10K this year alone, it's not a cost issue but how much profit the Tesla S makes.
 

Richbot

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Considering they jacked the price up on the S by 10K this year alone, it's not a cost issue but how much profit the Tesla S makes.
That's a bingo. They can sell every vehicle they make at sticker price, and are printing money and have a customer base accustomed to paying even higher prices just a few years back for an inferior product to what they're selling today. Model S P85D of 2016 was 20-30% more expensive, and not a great product by today's Tesla standards slower than even the Long Range S, less efficient per mile, slower charging, WAY worse range, much less infotainment and autopilot capability, significantly worse build quality and reliability and cold weather tolerance and I could go on and on.

Somebody jumping from their $110,000 P85D that just went out of warranty to their $95,000 2021 Long Range gets a car that's much faster, handles much better, has much better everything, and they FINALLY fixed that stupid round steering wheel everyone's been complaining about... :p all for less money. And a new customer who's been watching the space sees this same progression. I know that's why I finally jumped in...the 2016 cars were not compelling, but the 2020's were, for my use case, and they seemed to be able to deliver a new order in a reasonable time (which is no longer true). Tesla's customers have been boiling in the same pot this whole time so they don't notice a couple degrees increase...heh

Despite that price, they're converting never-before customers at a huge pace. I have a lot of neighbors with Teslas who didn't have one a year ago. My neighbor who has a 2018 Model 3 went from the only Tesla in the hood to one of about 10. The S and X are a sideshow compared to 3 and Y, the sales volume is an order of magnitude bigger for those cars, and if you look at the price per kWh of those cars in gross terms they are very competitive with their rivals. But X and S get a different buyer, the old 5-series and E-class customer, the ones who don't mind paying a "little" extra to check every option box. X/S $10,000 Full Self Driving But Not Really option take rate is 50%+ for X/S and down in the 20's for 3/Y.

Rivian, by contrast, knew it would be entering a competitive marketplace where pricing the truck up in the stratosphere would just cost sales. To be successful in its first 5 years, the line must run nonstop to keep revenue flowing. Low demand due to an unattractive price would have resulted in a stillborn company.

Cash flow rules everything around vehicle startups, like the man said (paraphrase)
 
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I've thought about this quite a bit. I have a Tesla Model S LR on order (supposed to be a November delivery, but who really knows) and have a 12,xxx reservation for a R1T. I've always planned for the Max Pack.

I see the R1T as the better constructed vehicle (4-motor solution, etc.). I see the Tesla as the better technology / network solution.

On the network side, one key Tesla advantage is the SuperCharger network -- that is until it is no longer is exclusive. Customers are clearly willing to pay for this.

The second is on the software / data side. Check out the recent announcement of a software upgrade on the Model 3 where safety is enhanced by improved air bag deployment strategies based on analysis of the data Tesla has from all the Model 3's on the road. I think Tesla will lead software development for some time.

I'll take delivery of the Tesla, and depending on how my R1T test drive and user reviews go, I'll either replace the Tesla (I'm locked in to pre-increase pricing) or my Lincoln Navigator.
 
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Ray R

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I’m starting to lean toward giving up my R1T reservation (February 2021) and ordering a Model S. Basically because the Tesla will be much more efficient with the same performance and range, and I really don’t need a pickup. And Tesla being a known company with pretty good local support in my area.
 

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I’m starting to lean toward giving up my R1T reservation (February 2021) and ordering a Model S. Basically because the Tesla will be much more efficient with the same performance and range, and I really don’t need a pickup. And Tesla being a known company with pretty good local support in my area.
Get the Tesla. Bigger vehicles will definetily have worse efficiency and if you don't need it, then why get it.
Personally, the MS is the only Tesla I'd consider since the others are kind of ugly to me, so go for it!
 
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Ray R

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Yep. Cancelled my R1T order and going for the S. And while we’re at it, a Y for my Mrs.
 

Babbuino

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Yep. Cancelled my R1T order and going for the S. And while we’re at it, a Y for my Mrs.
Congrats!! Im sure you'll enjoy your new MS. Hopefully you don't get stuck with the yoke.
I've heard bad things about the MY, not for performance but for noise on the road and rattles at higher speeds from people at work. Hopefully you have better luck than them.
 

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Sdvictor

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Yep. Cancelled my R1T order and going for the S. And while we’re at it, a Y for my Mrs.
Congrats. They should be excellent cars.

BTW,sorry for the late response to pricing parity comparisons, but Musk has mentioned in earnings calls that the S and X are the high margin cars that effectively contribute to profit and subsidize other activities. BOM costs don't equate to pricing.

That has always stood out to me as somebody who designed an entire pricing and profitability structure for a publicly traded company. I used to have products that cost between $99 and $120 to make, and we charged consumers $200 and $500 for the products depending on the model.
 

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Knowing that the battery pack is one of the most expensive components in an EV, I’m trying to figure out how Rivian can price their R1 vehicles less than a Tesla Model S. I’ve got a 180kWh max pack R1T pre-ordered with the Explore package and some extras, and it’s coming in at @$80k. A Tesla Model S long range with a 105kWh battery pack is @$90k without any extras.
Are Rivian’s batteries (Samsung) that much cheaper than Tesla’s? And would cheaper = poorer quality?
How did Genesis launch with such dirt cheap luxury cars? They did because they could and they wanted to. It's not like everybody factors in cost to build and then assigns the exact same profit margin. Sometimes companies will sell a new product at a loss just to get word of mouth going.

Tesla is only just now starting to get serious competitors in the EVs-you-would-actually-want-to-drive-space. Rivian is a new automaker that needs to get trucks on the road to sell more trucks. As Tesla loses market share to all of the other SUVs and luxury sedans that are about to hit, they will get cheaper. And I'd wager R1s will be at least 10-20% more 2 years from now. That's one reason I was willing to risk early adoption.
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