PSA: Driver+ Almost Caused a Crash

[stickyfingers]

I love my driver assist in the 2020 Honda Ridgeline especially on long drives. 99% of the time it works really well.

I hate the driver+ assist on my wifes 2020 X5. It is very aggressive and I don't like it one bit.

Some do a better job than others.

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[bd5400]

That said, my Rivian ping pongs between the lines. It's reminds me of what Nissan was capable of...in 2007. Tesla's autopilot in 2016 as far as I can remember is better than where Rivian is today.

The AP1 in our old Model X was definitely further ahead than Highway Assist, but it definitely had its limitations.

Although, when we had a Model 3, autopilot performance seemingly changed with every update, and not always in a good way. There were definitely some updates that had it bouncing back and forth between lane markings far more frequently than normal. Hopefully that means Highway Assist will have plenty of refinement over time.

 

[kizamybute']

I'm not sure if it varies from vehicle to vehicle or if there is learning behavior. I know even in Tesla's, two different vehicles on the same software could act differently.

That said, my Rivian ping pongs between the lines. It's reminds me of what Nissan was capable of...in 2007. Tesla's autopilot in 2016 as far as I can remember is better than where Rivian is today.

I use it, I don't trust it. But I use it in hopes that the data - disconnects, forced corrections, etc. will help speed up the development. Then caution is of course always pay attention and be in position to take over. The same goes for Tesla. Even in the current year I've had mine pull randomly, slam on the brakes randomly, or disconnect without so much as a warning.

Mine actually does pretty well as far as lane keeping. Not much ping ponging at all. But, do get the occasional abrupt left turns for no reason. When it works, it seems to work fairly well in my truck, but, just gets annoying having to disengage and re-engage it so many times for simple lane changes or because it sees a small section of a construction zone, "tunnel" or whatever other reason it comes up with. Too much of an effort most of the time to try and use it.

 

[kizamybute']

The AP1 in our old Model X was definitely further ahead than Highway Assist, but it definitely had its limitations.

Although, when we had a Model 3, autopilot performance seemingly changed with every update, and not always in a good way. There were definitely some updates that had it bouncing back and forth between lane markings far more frequently than normal. Hopefully that means Highway Assist will have plenty of refinement over time.

I loved my AP1 when it first came out. Before all the youtube idiots started posting videos of how stupid they could be with abusing the system, used to hardly get any nags at all, did very well on wide open freeways. Had one trip to Arizona where I think I went 200 miles on the 40 freeway from the 15 freeway in Barstow and not a single nag all the way. Was GREAT! Once all the nagging came in, took away the enjoyment for me, even with the Tesla found myself using it less and less. But, at least with the Tesla, didn't have to disengage every time for lane changes or tunnels.

I do wish Rivian would open up the programming to allow it to just be a lane keep assist based on what it sees from the cameras / sensors, rather than limited only to perfectly mapped roads, as AP1 was when it first came out. Unfortunately, Driver+ is not remotely on par with Tesla's first version of AP1 yet. Would be completely happy with it if it were similar to Tesla's first release years and years ago.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

Vanilla radar-based ACC with vision-based lane keeping is well-worn tech that should not be diving for the guard rails in 2022. Comma AI created a dead-reliable system just using an Android phone stuck to the windshield for god's sake. Repeated posts about Rivians suddenly darting across the shoulder suggests they are not leveraging any existing system and their ground up approach contains serious vulnerabilities. A bad accident from such could critically damage their brand.

I have many grievances about our Model Y but I've found the vision-based autopilot to be shockingly good. Used judiciously, I haven't experienced a single phantom braking event in over 6 months and it's been dead reliable on several multi-day trips across a wide range of roads. I still find it technically amazing that Tesla can pilot my vehicle reliably across several hundred miles of broken interstate with only a handful of low resolution, years-old image sensors. It's one of the reasons we ordered another Model Y as a backup.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Vanilla radar-based ACC with vision-based lane keeping is well-worn tech that should not be diving for the guard rails in 2022. Comma AI created a dead-reliable system just using an Android phone stuck to the windshield for god's sake. Repeated posts about Rivians suddenly darting across the shoulder suggests they are not leveraging any existing system and their ground up approach contains serious vulnerabilities. A bad accident from such could critically damage their brand.

I have many grievances about our Model Y but I've found the vision-based autopilot to be shockingly good. Used judiciously, I haven't experienced a single phantom braking event in over 6 months and it's been dead reliable on several multi-day trips across a wide range of roads. I still find it technically amazing that Tesla can pilot my vehicle reliably across several hundred miles of broken interstate with only a handful of low resolution, years-old image sensors. It's one of the reasons we ordered another Model Y as a backup.

As an AP1 owner then early AP2 owner…
You’re welcome?

My AP2 still had phantom braking just. A couple weeks ago and it has the upgraded FSD computer.

These things take time. Tesla has had years of head start. I have no doubt Rivian will get there, but systems like Tesla and Fords Bluecruise has a tremendous head start.

 

[RBR1S]

From the sounds of all of these reports, its trying to punish all you left lane drivers.

*I jest of course, but seriously, why always in the left lane near a guard rail, sounds scary.

 

[godfodder0901]

ACC don't steer you into a wall, but it can phantom brake at times.

All of the times...

 

[Pfleegz]

You’re far from alone. This happened to me a lot and I reported it a lot. They even requested I take into service and all they said was “couldn’t replicate the problem.”

I found that, for me anyways, it is the really bright contrast between shadows from bridges, etc and the main sun lit road. Like LKA thinks the shadow is the road and tries to lunge towards the median which makes no sense for a “mapped” road.

Really good point. There was a bridge nearby that had a few small shadows on the ground. Pretty concerning if shadows cause this!

 

[Sypher077]

No. It's a feature request I've made before.

ACC don't steer you into a wall, but it can phantom brake at times.

i so wish i had just cruise control! The fact that a glare or a bad bug splat can disable your ACC is super annoying especially on long drives

 

[texasBuzzard]

Last week I was driving on the interstate using Driver +. Out of nowhere the vehicle lurched hard left towards the guardrail of a bridge. Luckily I was able to react quickly and save the vehicle from a crash.

With my two kids in the backseat it was a terrifying experience. I have lost all confidence in Driver+. There was nothing in the road, no merging cars, on a well marked and lined interstate and a relatively straight portion.

I’ve been in contact with service and they advised to not use Driver + on my vehicle for the time being. They pulled the data surrounding the time it happened to learn more.

Please let this serve as your PSA. Make sure you’re fully attentive with Driver+.

I have only used Driver+ 2 times and both times the vehicle almost crashed. Once it started to take an exit and then corrected towards a guardrail, I caught it just in time. The second time it reactivated after I had used the brake to exit the highway and then on the feeder road it restarted itself and charged towards a concrete embankment and I saved it at the last second. Terrible feature.

When it is working, it tells you to put your hands on the wheel every few seconds. So if you have to keep your hands on the wheel and it tries to kill you, then why not just use cruise control?

Adaptive cruise control works great!

 

[Riviot]

Am I the only one that uses Highway Assist on the daily without any trouble? All these complaints have me wondering if we bought the same truck. I have one section of my 24 mile commute I don't use it, because it's the Gorst (pronounced worst). Otherwise, smooth sailing!

It kept fighting me

I imagine you wrestling the steering wheel away, pushing your feet up against the dash for leverage... My truck takes a slight tug of the wheel to disable Highway Assist and it keeps ACC active, something I do daily entering a construction zone. Surprisingly Highway Assist does fine through that too, it's the other drivers I don't trust.

 

[LaunchGreen]

Am I the only one that uses Highway Assist on the daily without any trouble? All these complaints have me wondering if we bought the same truck. I have one section of my 24 mile commute I don't use it, because it's the Gorst (pronounced worst). Otherwise, smooth sailing!



I imagine you wrestling the steering wheel away, pushing your feet up against the dash for leverage... My truck takes a slight tug of the wheel to disable Highway Assist and it keeps ACC active, something I do daily entering a construction zone. Surprisingly Highway Assist does fine through that too, it's the other drivers I don't trust.

While I did have one experience where it pulled to the left like the OP, but I still use it all the time. Amazingly smooth, no phantom breaking at all. I drive from San Diego to L.A and back and it only has me take over in one construction zone and very very briefly for a toll booth. It makes the trip much more enjoyable.

For those that don’t know, this route is 4-6 lanes, 80+ mph and often packed and start and stop sections.

As you mention, the system is very easy to take over.

 

[AdamsFan1983]

No. It's a feature request I've made before.

ACC don't steer you into a wall, but it can phantom brake at times.

There is in fact cruise control with adaptive speed adjustments. A single pull of the right stalk activates that. Driver+ is a double pull of the stalk and that has all the functionality of the adaptive cruise control, +the lane centering/autosteering.

I confess, in the first two months I had two or so instances where I experienced the situation described herein. But, even when using driver+ I remain attentive and engaged. I didn't have an issue exerting control in either case. That said, it hasn't happened since, its been several months.

 

[MoreTrout]

I have only tried Driver+ a few times to see what it was like. Did ok for short distances without any events like others have had, but the constant motion of the steering wheel was far more annoying and felt like I had to exert more energy than having relaxed motionless hands on the wheel with ACC. It wasn't really ping ponging between lane edges, but felt like it had to make a few inch correction every second to stay centered.

ACC on the other hand, I have loved. Very, very rare phantom braking for me. Usually happens with a significant bend in the road, and it seems to be more common in right turns than left, but that could be my imagination. I only recall it happening going straight one time. There is about a 50 mile stretch of country road I drive often that is 55 most of the way and slows to 45 or 35 through a couple of tiny towns. I actually prefer to have someone in front of me. I have driven nearly the entire stretch on ACC and using only the right buttons to adjust speed or letting the driver in front of me do it for me. About the only small gripe is I wish it accelerated just a little faster once the vehicle in front turned or sped up. Feel like I need to give the accelerator a little extra sometimes to get back up to cruising speed.

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