Preconditioning confusion

[R.I.P.]

Odd… seems like this would make the Enduro motors better designed, less susceptible to heat-induced damage, etc… and so would have given longer (or at least equal) warranty period. Granted, there are lots of other possible reasons Rivian could have opted for the shorter warranty on the Enduro-equipped vehicles… including less long-term trust in their own, less proven design.

It is very common in the automotive industry to issue extended warranties when there is a chance there could be problems with parts on the vehicle, such as Ford's recent valve woes on the V6b engines.

Rivian gave a generous warranty on the initial release to help ease jitters people normally have with a new product. Reading anything more into that is probably a reach too far.

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[Singletracker]

Do you have DM or quad?

@R.I.P. you switched from quad to DM, right? Previously I understood that in warm weather DM was more efficient at temp management than quad, something to do with being easier to shed temps with air gap instead of oil. In cold temps trying heat things up, do you think quad would be more efficient than DM at transferring heat to batteries?

Quad motor

 

[Throwdown]

Then it’s not BS. Rivian heats the battery when their engineers determine it needs it. Not sure why that’s so controversial.

Because they advertised battery and interior precondtioning in the latest update

 

[emoore]

Because they advertised battery and interior precondtioning in the latest update

They are doing that.

 

[Throwdown]

They are doing that.

I disagree, we need rivian to clarify

 

[emoore]

I disagree, we need rivian to clarify

Clarify what? They determined that 58F isn’t cold enough to have to precondition. Put your truck outside and it will warm the battery.

 

[Throwdown]

Clarify what? They determined that 58F isn’t cold enough to have to precondition. Put your truck outside and it will warm the battery.

Who did? And just the act of the electrons moving while charging warms the battery, that's my point. My battery is no warmer since the update than before, I would notice no difference. Other people said their battery is now 70f when preconditoning is on, mine isnt

 

[R.I.P.]

Who did? And just the act of the electrons moving while charging warms the battery, that's my point. My battery is no warmer since the update than before, I would notice no difference. Other people said their battery is now 70f when preconditoning is on, mine isnt

I am not sure what the confusion is, maybe this will help:

• The R1 will warm, or "condition" the battery using heat off the motors if the BMS deems is necessary for the health of the battery, or, if it will assist in fast charging.
• This "conditioning" can be triggered by the vehicle, such as when it is aware that it will be fast charging.
• The vehicle does not have to be moving for this to happen.
• This "conditioning" can also be triggered by a the user by starting the climate control (whether scheduled or not).
• The latter trigger is simply to get the battery above critical floor levels (which the industry agrees is between 32 and 40 degrees F).
• In tests I have done, the R1 will not not normally trigger external warming (the motors) if over 50 degrees F unless it is in preparation for DCFC.

This is demonstrable, documented and reasonable behavior many of us have watched with the Rivian BMS.

does that help?

 

[emoore]

I am not sure what the confusion is, maybe this will help:

• The R1 will warm, or "condition" the battery using heat off the motors if the BMS deems is necessary for the health of the battery, or, if it will assist in fast charging.
• This "conditioning" can be triggered by the vehicle, such as when it is aware that it will be fast charging.
• The vehicle does not have to be moving for this to happen.
• This "conditioning" can also be triggered by a the user by starting the climate control (whether scheduled or not).
• The latter trigger is simply to get the battery above critical floor levels (which the industry agrees is between 32 and 40 degrees F).
• In tests I have done, the R1 will not not normally trigger external warming (the motors) if over 50 degrees F unless it is in preparation for DCFC.

This is demonstrable, documented and reasonable behavior many of us have watched with the Rivian BMS.

does that help?

Nice summary RIP. Much better than I did.

 

[Dark-Fx]

58 likely isn't close to optimal, idk what rivian considers I assume around 70 cuz thats where the line in the gauge is. batteries like to be hot. I call it bs because it is, mine isn't preconditioning the battery any more than what it would normally heat to when charging at this ambient temp

Battery at 50F seems to be the point where output performance is pretty much back to normal. Regen is only slightly degraded. There is no good reason to heat beyond that point unless you are headed to a DC charger. It's a waste of energy.

not to muddy these waters anymore than Rivian already did, but my belief based on rivians past statements was that the vehicle autonomously warms the battery at certain temperature set point, no matter what. This would make it difficult to attribute cause and effect in colder climates since the cabin preconditioning and BMS functionality could be independent of each other.

In my observations of vampire drain there is a very significant jump in power usage as temperatures dip somewhere between 30 and 50 deg F. That occurs without any preconditioning whatsoever and I attribute it to the BMS warming up the battery.

But I realize that I may be conflating the BMS keeping the battery above X vs. “Preconditioning” heating the battery up to an optimal temperature from shore power prior to driving.

I definitely would like Rivian to explain all this functionality better.

Based on my experience with the Bolt EV battery exposing all the battery temperatures over CAN, I expect that Rivian is probably giving us an average temperature, but targets minimum temperature when warming the battery.

We aren't getting every piece of data exposed to us, so it's difficult to know, but there is enough variation in the displayed temperature and actions of the system that this would explain things in my mind.

 

[emoore]

Who did? And just the act of the electrons moving while charging warms the battery, that's my point. My battery is no warmer since the update than before, I would notice no difference. Other people said their battery is now 70f when preconditoning is on, mine isnt

Rivian did. That’s why your battery doesn’t precondition from 58F. It’s close enough to 70F.

 

[Riviot]

This is about as good as it gets. This is why the Enduro not only has much better cooling, but it is able to quickly and efficiently get heat to the batteries when needed as well... at half the temps the Bosch needs to do the same job.

You're really selling the Enduro setup. I think I'm gonna push this truck on a few more long road trips then trade in around 50k miles this summer. Thanks for the insight!

 

[R.I.P.]

You're really selling the Enduro setup. I think I'm gonna push this truck on a few more long road trips then trade in around 50k miles this summer. Thanks for the insight!

Rivian did a fantastic job on thier in-house design, I am a big fan! They listened, they learned, and delivered.
?

 

[Throwdown]

I am not sure what the confusion is, maybe this will help:

• The R1 will warm, or "condition" the battery using heat off the motors if the BMS deems is necessary for the health of the battery, or, if it will assist in fast charging.
• This "conditioning" can be triggered by the vehicle, such as when it is aware that it will be fast charging.
• The vehicle does not have to be moving for this to happen.
• This "conditioning" can also be triggered by a the user by starting the climate control (whether scheduled or not).
• The latter trigger is simply to get the battery above critical floor levels (which the industry agrees is between 32 and 40 degrees F).
• In tests I have done, the R1 will not not normally trigger external warming (the motors) if over 50 degrees F unless it is in preparation for DCFC.

This is demonstrable, documented and reasonable behavior many of us have watched with the Rivian BMS.

does that help?

No maybe I'm not clear, newest update they said they added scheduled interior and battery precondtioning. However I'm not seeing my battery be any warmer than before the update.
I know it will heat the battery when it wants, I know it uses the motors to heat the battery. I'm saying I see no difference in my battery temp from prior update after charging and post update with the preconditioning set, that's all. I'm well aware how evs work, I repair them on a daily basis. I just don't know rivians technical specs to know what's what.

 

[R.I.P.]

No maybe I'm not clear, newest update they said they added scheduled interior and battery precondtioning. However I'm not seeing my battery be any warmer than before the update.

If you are not seeing the battery heat during preconditioning, it is because your battery is >40 degrees F, and the BMS has decided it is not necessary.

The BMS will not heat the battery unnecessarily.

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