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Poll on additional cost for 400 mile version

How much more would you be willing to pay for the 400+ mile version (over the 300+)?


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    134

UT Rivian

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Hello fellow Utes!

Looking forward to (hopefully) seeing some Rivians on the road soon!
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Gshenderson

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We have a business in Escalante, Utah and a home in San Diego. The distance is 615 miles. We are willing to make a stop mid way to charge. Most of our mileage is long distance -- 300 round trip due to the remote area where we live (Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument). Not concerned about local driving as it's within a hundred miles --- charging and range is the issue
Even with a 400 mile battery, you’d be pushing to make that trip on one stop since you’re likely not going to get 400 miles running at freeway speeds and going through mountains.. And even if you could, it would actually be faster if you stopped more than once and not attempt to get to 100% charge. The rate of charge drops of dramatically once you get above 80% charge.

On long trips in my Tesla, my strategy is usually to fill just enough to get to the next charger. It actually ends up being faster and more pleasant with more frequent breaks. It helps that Tesla superchargers tend to be located very close to freeway ramps. Hopefully other networks take that same approach.
 

ajdelange

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We have a business in Escalante, Utah and a home in San Diego. The distance is 615 miles. We are willing to make a stop mid way to charge. Most of our mileage is long distance -- 300 round trip due to the remote area where we live (Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument). Not concerned about local driving as it's within a hundred miles --- charging and range is the issue
My response to this post is the same as I have given in response to dozens of others like it: Go to A Better Route Planner and plug this trip in. Play with the various parameters to see what it is likely you will have to do as you vary them.
 

Trandall

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Firstly this will be my first Full EV so take the following with a grain of salt. I think 400 mile range is only needed as a security blanket for range anxiety for most people 99% of the time. Personally, based on my past 10-15 years of actual driving history I would have only required DC fast charging an average of 3 times a year. For those 3 times it would probably make sense to just schedule an extra 2 hours per trip for time wasted traveling to and charging. If the alternative is paying $10,000+ and carrying hundreds of pounds of batteries I only use <1% of the time I use the vehicle. I also agree with ajdelage in his post above.
 

Smithery

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Firstly this will be my first Full EV so take the following with a grain of salt. I think 400 mile range is only needed as a security blanket for range anxiety for most people 99% of the time. Personally, based on my past 10-15 years of actual driving history I would have only required DC fast charging an average of 3 times a year. For those 3 times it would probably make sense to just schedule an extra 2 hours per trip for time wasted traveling to and charging. If the alternative is paying $10,000+ and carrying hundreds of pounds of batteries I only use <1% of the time I use the vehicle. I also agree with ajdelage in his post above.
Alternate view point.

We leased a Rav4EV for 3 years before purchasing our Model X 100D almost 4 years ago.

The rated range of both is legit. In perfect weather. At 65mph. With a light foot around town.

If you're...

-Blasting the AC (a little added usage)
-Blasting the heater (a lot extra usage)
-Driving realistic speeds (Our cruse control is at 80 for long flat portions of long California road trips, not 65)
-Actually enjoying all of that torque around town (There's no way you'll be voluntarily doing a 0-60 in 15s instead of < 5s around town. It's too hard to not enjoy what's at your fingertips)

...then your range will be much less than what's rated.

Our Model X reads ~297mi on a full charge with a pre-warmed battery, but we plan to rely on getting a bit over 200.

We're expecting to get 300mi out of our fully charged max-pack truck, not over 400, which will still be a game changer for us. But it's for these reasons we couldn't stomach the mid-range pack.

No matter how much the earlier delivery date enticed us.
 

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bajadahl

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Alternate view point.

We leased a Rav4EV for 3 years before purchasing our Model X 100D almost 4 years ago.

The rated range of both is legit. In perfect weather. At 65mph. With a light foot around town.

If you're...

-Blasting the AC (a little added usage)
-Blasting the heater (a lot extra usage)
-Driving realistic speeds (Our cruse control is at 80 for long flat portions of long California road trips, not 65)
-Actually enjoying all of that torque around town (There's no way you'll be voluntarily doing a 0-60 in 15s instead of < 5s around town. It's too hard to not enjoy what's at your fingertips)

...then your range will be much less than what's rated.

Our Model X reads ~297mi on a full charge with a pre-warmed battery, but we plan to rely on getting a bit over 200.

We're expecting to get 300mi out of our fully charged max-pack truck, not over 400, which will still be a game changer for us. But it's for these reasons we couldn't stomach the mid-range pack.

No matter how much the earlier delivery date enticed us.
Not to mention towing anything......
 

davrow_R1T

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Not to mention towing anything......
Also not to mention "max range" is not recommended as a usual regimen. Real recommended range is at 20 - 80 percent SOC.

So recommended normal range of a 300 mile vehicle is more like 180. Then those caveats as stated above.
 

Trandall

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I may be eating crow on this one. Since I gave the caveat of not currently owning an EV and stating 400 mile range is rarely needed in my last post I did a little more study of my assumptions. I assumed I could make a 256 mile round trip from my house to watch Buffalo Bills home games without charging in a R1T large pack. I had never compounded all the reductions in rated vs. actual miles (deducting for beginning and ending state of charge, Increased speed/ weight, temperature...). I planned it out with https://abetterrouteplanner.com and made 2 new discoveries #1. If I make this trip with a large pack R1T I will be charging at some point. #2. There are a complete lack of DC fast chargers in most of upstate NY?. I am still opting for the Large pack but I now know I will be driving 20 min. out of the way and charging for 30 minutes before every home game unless they add L2 destination chargers at the stadium. Lets Go Buffalo!
 

ajdelange

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I may be eating crow on this one.
Not really IMO because you said earlier...


Firstly this will be my first Full EV so take the following with a grain of salt.
Anyone who has operated a BEV in today's charging infrastructure knows that there are certain aspects of it which only become apparent with experience. Exception: People who have experience with airplanes


I think 400 mile range is only needed as a security blanket for range anxiety for most people 99% of the time.
That's exactly what it is! A pilot is required to have enough fuel on board to reach his destination, proceed to an alternate that is forecast to have acceptable weather and fly a half hour beyond that. Flight plans 'gang aft aglay' and so can a road trip if there is a change in the weather that takes your only available charger out of play. You will come to understand this pretty quickly once you actually start driving a BEV. It's the same with ICE except that having to make an extra fuel stop in an ICE vehicle is hardly a noteworthy event because there will, in all probability, be a gas station wherever you need one. But I'll note that I have run out of gas.

Other than financial reasons there is never cause to chose a battery smaller than the one that gives the longest range. Besides the extra security a larger battery charges, for a given charge rate (kW, mph) a lower C rate which makes for longer battery life. Note that this does not mean you have to spend a longer time at a charger as you only need to replace the miles you have used. And it also means that your daily needs can be met over a narrower range of SoC.
 
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timesinks

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Other than financial reasons there is never cause to chose a battery smaller than the one that gives the longest range.
Have to disagree. It may not be a motivation for you, but some people will also be motivated by the environmental impact of that decision. Buying more battery than you need will contribute to unnecessary mining and will push out the carbon break even point for owning your vehicle. For the people for whom environmental factors are significant in their decision to move to an EV, they may well reflect on the once-per-year minor inconvenience in the context of their normal driving habits and decide that the additional impact isn't worth it.
 

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ajdelange

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Have to disagree.
Help yourself.

...It may not be a motivation for you, but some people will also be motivated by the environmental impact of that decision. Buying more battery than you need will contribute to unnecessary mining...
People who worry about such nonsense should hardly be looking at vehicles where the trade is between 135 and 180 kWh but rather ones where the trade is between 35 and 45 kWh.
 
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Smithery

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I assumed I could make a 256 mile round trip from my house to watch Buffalo Bills home games without charging in a R1T large pack.
As long as you're not towing, you will comfortably be able to make a 256mi round trip as long as you charge to 100% before you leave.

I'd even strongly wager that in cold, snowy winter months in upstate NY, it won't even be an issue.

I would also strongly wager that you would NOT want to try that with the mid range pack, even in summer months.

I have almost exactly that same distance of round trip on my "frequent drives list", and that is why the max pack will be the game changer for us over our Model X.
 
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Smithery

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Also not to mention "max range" is not recommended as a usual regimen. Real recommended range is at 20 - 80 percent SOC.

So recommended normal range of a 300 mile vehicle is more like 180. Then those caveats as stated above.
You don't hurt these batteries by charging them all the way. You hurt them by leaving them fully charged for a period of time.

Nobody knows what Rivian's battery management will be like. But in our Model X we have the flexibility to usually charge to 85% (only need to every 3 or 4 days), but schedule a departure time with a 100% charge when we have a road trip that needs it.
 

discsinthesky

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Help yourself.

People who worry about such nonsense should hardly be looking at vehicles where the trade is between 135 and 180 kWh but rather ones where the trade is between 35 and 45 kWh.
You kind of made his point for him. The difference in battery pack between 135 and 180 is 45 kWh - not an insignificant amount of batteries to meet that capacity difference.

I think I get your point that if someone is worried about the environment, perhaps a huge BEV isn't the best option. But I also think people are complicated and there are lots of factors someone might use to evaluate a purchase. I don't think it has to be hypocritical to decide that a truck or SUV fits your needs, and while meeting that baseline condition for utility that you'd still like to minimize your environmental impact to the extent that you can.
 

Gshenderson

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Have to disagree. It may not be a motivation for you, but some people will also be motivated by the environmental impact of that decision. Buying more battery than you need will contribute to unnecessary mining and will push out the carbon break even point for owning your vehicle. For the people for whom environmental factors are significant in their decision to move to an EV, they may well reflect on the once-per-year minor inconvenience in the context of their normal driving habits and decide that the additional impact isn't worth it.
Not to mention the extra weight and reduced acceleration. 0-60 in 3.0 seconds vs. 3.2 is seriously important in the real world! :CWL:
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