Poll on additional cost for 400 mile version

[DB-EV]

I may be eating crow on this one. Since I gave the caveat of not currently owning an EV and stating 400 mile range is rarely needed in my last post I did a little more study of my assumptions. I assumed I could make a 256 mile round trip from my house to watch Buffalo Bills home games without charging in a R1T large pack. I had never compounded all the reductions in rated vs. actual miles (deducting for beginning and ending state of charge, Increased speed/ weight, temperature...). I planned it out with https://abetterrouteplanner.com and made 2 new discoveries #1. If I make this trip with a large pack R1T I will be charging at some point. #2. There are a complete lack of DC fast chargers in most of upstate NY?. I am still opting for the Large pack but I now know I will be driving 20 min. out of the way and charging for 30 minutes before every home game unless they add L2 destination chargers at the stadium. Lets Go Buffalo!

Trandall - don't worry about the chargers: google EVolveNY. As part of NY's settlement with VW, VW funded a high speed charge network. You can see planned sites, including a bunch on major arteries.

Last year a handful were up (North Country, Mid Hudson, somewhere else), now there is one at JFK, and witin the next 6 months there will be ones in the ADK park and Western NY.

You should be good to go with these. These appear to be Level 6 (Chargeway) which is what it Rivian is building out. Should be 200 mi in about 20 min.

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[DB-EV]

Also, I think it will be interesting how charging networks come out. By next year, NY will have a good network, where you could easily get in the ADK park (a bigger state forest than some state parks and forever wild land) as there is an open charger in Schroon Lake NY.
It looks like NY chargers under this program will be at least 150kw; perhaps 200.
Vermont on the other hand, excepting Tesla, really only seems to have the Level 4 (50kw) charging.

 

[ajdelange]

You don't hurt these batteries by charging them all the way. You hurt them by leaving them fully charged for a period of time.

Yes, actually you do but if you leave soon after reaching 100% the damage will be minimal and you can get away with doing this now and then,

 

[ajdelange]

These appear to be Level 6 (Chargeway) which is what it Rivian is building out. Should be 200 mi in about 20 min.

Vermont on the other hand, excepting Tesla, really only seems to have the Level 4 (50kw) charging.

Level 6? Level 4? Whose system is this? The only one I know
Level I: 120V AC charging
Level 2: 240V AC charging
Level 3: DC "fast" charging

CharIn names their standards with names that suggest the maximum power e.g. HPC350 for 350 kW.

Vermont on the other hand, excepting Tesla,

Tesla chargers aren't exactly thick as sprats in Vermont either. But nothing shown or planned for CCS above 50 kW in the whole state.

 

[DucRider]

Level 6? Level 4? Whose system is this? The only one I know
Level I: 120V AC charging
Level 2: 240V AC charging
Level 3: DC "fast" charging

I know the founder(s). They did a poll at the auto show to confirm their position that people did not know what a kW or kWh was. They got utility company money and other grants to develop a new labeling system and app that had a different color for the different connectors and a number associated with it to show relative charge speed.
Your Model X would be a "Red 4", Model 3's are "Red 5", A Nissan LEAF would be a "Green 3" and "Blue 2". Rivians will likely be classed as a "Green Blue 6". Teslas come with adapters to let them use "Blue 2" stations, and you can buy one to use some "Green 3".
The theory is that the average driver won't be able to understand CCS vs Tesla vs CHAdeMO and kw and kWh's are totally beyond their comprehension.
They have an app that allows you to put your vehicle in and it will show you only charging stations that are compatible with your vehicle. The have "Beacons" they place in auto dealers that are 6 foot tall cell phones running a demo version of their app with the idea that it will help clueless car salespeople explain how to fuel your EV.

Many utilities have some mandates requiring "Education" or other means of promoting EV adoption and there was money on the table. They grabbed some. I think they were getting $10K+ per dealership to place the beacons in the first test cycle (from the utilities, not the dealer).
They have been able to get most charging companies on board, and coordinated with EA on their handle colors for CCS vs CHAdeMO.

Not sure how much traction he will get long term with CA requiring public charging to be labeled with the kW rating, price per kWh, and a gas pump like meter displaying kWh dispensed and the cost.

 

[timf]

Rivians will likely be classed as a "Green 6".

Rivian would fall in blue, not green.

 

[DucRider]

Rivian would fall in blue, not green.

Fixed. Thanks.

 

[Mjhirsch78]

That color and number system makes a lot more sense for the average person who won’t fully understand the technology. It also seems like a quick visual that folks can latch onto to know speed and compatibility. I’m a fan. I’m of course still going to be curious about details, but most folks won’t as EVs become more common heh.

 

[ajdelange]

They did a poll at the auto show to confirm their position that people did not know what a kW or kWh was.

I cannot bring myself to believe that my countrymen are that dumb. How would they deal with their electric bills were this the case? Why would manufacturers label their goods with power consumption numbers?

 

[DucRider]

I cannot bring myself to believe that my countrymen are that dumb. How would they deal with their electric bills were this the case? Why would manufacturers label their goods with power consumption numbers?

Really? Do you watch or read the news at all?

People generally set up their bill for autopay and are done with it. They may look at the $$ each month, but not much deeper.

And Matt did make sure he got the results he needed from his poll. Much of it had to do with the phrasing, but he was also careful in his respondents. He quickly learned he could not do his survey in the electric car showcase where there were existing owners and a large percentage of the attendees were already interested in EVs. He claimed that it was a biased sample. He found that people on the show floor knew whether their vehicle needed "regular" or "premium" (but could not define octane). His pre drawn conclusion was that electricity needed to be treated as a fuel with a simplified labeling system (his business model) for drivers to understand before they would consider an EV. His survey would have been better if he asked the gas related questions to non-drivers (bus riders?), but it was designed to get the needed data to bring to the organizations funding EV education (VW, utilities, etc.)

 

[skyote]

Really? Do you watch or read the news at all?

Amen. Things need to be extremely simple for the general population, and there's advantages with simplicity and logical grouping even for more astute buyers.

 

[ajdelange]

Really? Do you watch or read the news at all?

No, which sort of proves your point.

Amen. Things need to be extremely simple for the general population, and there's advantages with simplicity and logical grouping even for more astute buyers.

One of the things I am fearful of with respect to broader EV adoption is that the OEMs may not be able to find ways to "dumb it down" enough for the American public.


Lest anyone take offense, while many different locales are listed by the members in their user bios I recognize that everyone here was originally from Lake Wobegone.

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