Poll on additional cost for 400 mile version

[irwinr]

to make the trip I would have to go out of my way through OK in order to charge along the way (and cross my fingers that the chargers are all functional).

The extra 75 miles on that particular route is a valid complaint. But I'm not sure about the concern about the stations working: there are at least 5 different DCFC stations in that general area of Oklahoma that would all work to get you there and most of them have multiple stalls each. It's pretty unlikely that all stalls at a given location will be down, and even if they were, there are several other stations very close by.

Then there's Big Bend which will be out of reach for the "large" battery pack and on the fringes of the "max" pack (even at 180 kWh).

This comment is a bit confusing for me... Looking at the route in ABRP:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=24b5a2d2-92fc-4faf-a7c9-ae0e9f1155f6

It looks like it's quite easy to get there... unless the concern is doing it round trip? Normally I would assume if you're embarking on a 9 hour drive somewhere you're probably going to at least spend one night in which case you'd hopefully be staying somewhere with L2 charging and have your truck plugged in and charging while you're sleeping.

Even if you assumed you didn't do any overnight charging while visiting the park it's doable round trip, but does require one extra long stop at Fort Stockton: (Assuming the "mid range" 135 kWh pack, the 180 kWh pack would be much easier):

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=69c99671-eb86-41ab-a511-06bd154650e3

So if you left Dallas at 9am you'd have a few short stops of 15-20 minutes each and then you'd arrive at the Wal-Mart in Fort Stockton at around 4pm and you'd need to sit there for an hour to charge. But luckily that would be right around dinner time and there's a decent looking steakhouse just 5 minutes walk from the charging station. Come back to a full charged truck around 6pm with a full belly and then you're pulling into Big Bend around 7pm.

Doesn't sound so bad to me... And again this is with the mid range pack. The larger pack would decrease the charging time at Fort Stockton down to 40 minutes:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=a34d9e19-8139-4a68-beec-fdeeab130d93

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[Tio Ricco]

The reason I am waiting for the Max Pack (400+ mi) is that RJ has already stated that with the R1T range should be 414-424 miles. I plan on towing a 5,000 lb gross weight travel trailer (with all water, provisions, etc onboard). I hope I get 200 mile range, I figure this range should allow me to find some sort of charging point even if it is an RV Park overnight. Even though I would rather be boondocking in a National Forest for weeks on end. Utilizing the travel trailer rooftop solar(640 watts) and a little bit of portable panels should trickle charge 3-4 prime sun hours a day the R1T 5+ extra miles/day when just sitting at camp I then can drop the trailer and have some fun. Towing 200 miles is good enough for my plans with the R1T.

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[Taxmuni]

How much are people willing to shell out for the additional range?
You can also take into account the longer wait time - likely 6 months on the R1T and a year(?) on the R1S

I know I have seen and read about RIVIAN offering a supplemental battery pack that fits under the hatch in the bed of the RT1.... to extend the range.. it must take the place of the full-sized spare... so that is a knock; but wondering if the frunk can be used for extended battery pack or spare? Dunno, never seen it in person.

 

[Tio Ricco]

I know I have seen and read about RIVIAN offering a supplemental battery pack that fits under the hatch in the bed of the RT1.... to extend the range.. it must take the place of the full-sized spare... so that is a knock; but wondering if the frunk can be used for extended battery pack or spare? Dunno, never seen it in person.

all I know about is the Patent they have showing this for R1T
https://www.thedrive.com/news/37583...e-bed-mounted-battery-pack-for-extended-range

 

[DucRider]

I know I have seen and read about RIVIAN offering a supplemental battery pack that fits under the hatch in the bed of the RT1.... to extend the range.. it must take the place of the full-sized spare... so that is a knock; but wondering if the frunk can be used for extended battery pack or spare? Dunno, never seen it in person.

I would put the odds of any supplemental packs at near zero.
Not only do you have to provide for the electrical connections, but also for the battery conditioning (cooling and heating) with separate valving and sensors for the additional pack. Any supplemental pack that is going to offer any significant range boost will also be of forklift range weight to install/remove (45 kWh could easily be in the 600 lb neighborhood)

 

[Blur1t]

I would put the odds of any supplemental packs at near zero.
Not only do you have to provide for the electrical connections, but also for the battery conditioning (cooling and heating) with separate valving and sensors for the additional pack. Any supplemental pack that is going to offer any significant range boost will also be of forklift range weight to install/remove (45 kWh could easily be in the 600 lb neighborhood)

Nothing wrong with that. They had mentioned it be like rented, for long trips and in which case could be delivered and put on at Location by said networks. Of course this is all speculation, but most of us don’t need the extra 100 miles for our commutes. Don’t get me wrong I’d have signed up for the 400+ if it was available early, but for me I’ve waited long enough, 2 years is not in this adult child to curb my emotional attachment...? just hope those patents aren’t scrapped like the glass color changes and the 180 tailgate...?

 

[DucRider]

Nothing wrong with that. They had mentioned it be like rented, for long trips and in which case could be delivered and put on at Location by said networks. Of course this is all speculation, but most of us don’t need the extra 100 miles for our commutes. Don’t get me wrong I’d have signed up for the 400+ if it was available early, but for me I’ve waited long enough, 2 years is not in this adult child to curb my emotional attachment...? just hope those patents aren’t scrapped like the glass color changes and the 180 tailgate...?

Most patents don't make it into production.
To accommodate the slide in packs, the vehicle would have to already be designed for it and we've seen no indications of that. Beefed up bed structure and suspension, coolant loops and connections. Both HV and 12V connections that are designed for multiple connections/disconnections (and are 100% safe when disconnected). Coolant would have to be filled and bled after a pack install (although you could possible design a self contained pack with the pumps/heaters/radiators included, but that would increase the weight/size, and cost significantly)
This would either be one very expensive remote service call or you would need to visit one of the planned service centers to both install and remove the pack.
Bottom line is the market for such a service would be small when renting a vehicle for the occasion trip would be more convenient and a fraction of the cost.

 

[Blur1t]

Most patents don't make it into production.
To accommodate the slide in packs, the vehicle would have to already be designed for it and we've seen no indications of that. Beefed up bed structure and suspension, coolant loops and connections. Both HV and 12V connections that are designed for multiple connections/disconnections (and are 100% safe when disconnected). Coolant would have to be filled and bled after a pack install (although you could possible design a self contained pack with the pumps/heaters/radiators included, but that would increase the weight/size, and cost significantly)
This would either be one very expensive remote service call or you would need to visit one of the planned service centers to both install and remove the pack.
Bottom line is the market for such a service would be small when renting a vehicle for the occasion trip would be more convenient and a fraction of the cost.

I think your reading too deep into this. The bed can handle the weight and one could pick up and drop off at location. Since it would be separate entity and like a gas can you would just use it like a gas can and plug it in and charge it separately too. Since it is all speculation, feel free to chime in by all means but Christmas is coming and your killing my dreams ?. As a former mechanic I realize the difficulty in making this a reality but it does seem that it can work, maybe not 100 miles but stacking batteries vertically instead of horizontally seems like it could be possible. Like a tool box in the bed, no additional things required if it’s self contained unit, and used like a gas can, after all you don’t run a hose to the gas can and feed it through your fuel pump, no, you use the spout and pour it in as needed. Again, my thoughts and opinion I’m not the engineer. I will entertain the idea because the wait and the price for the 400 is just silly. Hummer will be out by then, even though I’m not a GM fan, I drive a Ford, they are tried and true in the battery world (Bolt) and off road, even though they are a bit more truck and really not in the same race. That crab crawl makes me ?.

 

[timesinks]

I think your reading too deep into this. The bed can handle the weight and one could pick up and drop off at location. Since it would be separate entity and like a gas can you would just use it like a gas can and plug it in and charge it separately too. Since it is all speculation, feel free to chime in by all means but Christmas is coming and your killing my dreams ?. As a former mechanic I realize the difficulty in making this a reality but it does seem that it can work, maybe not 100 miles but stacking batteries vertically instead of horizontally seems like it could be possible. Like a tool box in the bed, no additional things required if it’s self contained unit, and used like a gas can, after all you don’t run a hose to the gas can and feed it through your fuel pump, no, you use the spout and pour it in as needed. Again, my thoughts and opinion I’m not the engineer. I will entertain the idea because the wait and the price for the 400 is just silly. Hummer will be out by then, even though I’m not a GM fan, I drive a Ford, they are tried and true in the battery world (Bolt) and off road, even though they are a bit more truck and really not in the same race. That crab crawl makes me ?.

The patent that generated the rumor was for an integrated battery pack expansion in the bed. As DucRider detailed, there are a lot of practical reasons why you shouldn't count on this.

The fuel can idea (using the vehicle charger port while stopped) has its own limitations. You need an integrated inverter and charger addition to the batteries. Anything that would provide more than about 1.44kW continuous (or, about 3 miles of range per hour of charging) would be quite large, heavy, and expensive. Plus the inlet for charging the "fuel can" back up (J1772? Household plug?)...

It's not that it's impossible. We've charged our Volt off our camper van solar-battery-inverter setup (at 120V/12A), but mostly to say we did -- not because it was practical. For almost any real world situations, such a setup would most likely be impractical and cost prohibitive.

Maybe someday somebody will create a high voltage pack that uses CCS and some DC-DC circuity. But with the size and current cost of DC fast charger equipment, it will probably be many years before we see anything practical in this space.

 

[Blur1t]

The patent that generated the rumor was for an integrated battery pack expansion in the bed. As DucRider detailed, there are a lot of practical reasons why you shouldn't count on this.

The fuel can idea (using the vehicle charger port while stopped) has its own limitations. You need an integrated inverter and charger addition to the batteries. Anything that would provide more than about 1.44kW continuous (or, about 3 miles of range per hour of charging) would be quite large, heavy, and expensive. Plus the inlet for charging the "fuel can" back up (J1772? Household plug?)...

It's not that it's impossible. We've charged our Volt off our camper van solar-battery-inverter setup (at 120V/12A), but mostly to say we did -- not because it was practical. For almost any real world situations, such a setup would most likely be impractical and cost prohibitive.

Maybe someday somebody will create a high voltage pack that uses CCS and some DC-DC circuity. But with the size and current cost of DC fast charger equipment, it will probably be many years before we see anything practical in this space.

We have not even seen the production model out yet so anything is possible. Just believe brother, look at the election no one thought that was going to be that difficult ? lol. ?

 

[ajdelange]

There are just so many possibilities with respect to an auxilliary battery in the bed that it is impossible to speculate at this point what Rivian may or may not do. But I think that they are going to be busy enough in the near term getting the trucks into production that I would not expect anything soon.

Of course it's fun to speculate what such a system might look like. We're getting close to 300 Wh/kg so we might think about 10 Kwh modules weighing 33.3 kg (73 lbs) that plug together or plug into some sort of frame that contains the interface to the main battery. No point in doing this unless the interface were DC but the interface would be quite simple. The connector would be like the CCS connector i.e. 2 DC pins, ground and signalling. Each module would add about 20 miles range so 5 of them would take a 300 mile truck up to 400 for an added load of 400 or so pounds. At 60 mph and 400 Wh/mi the total battery load would be 30 kW with each module, if equally sharing, contributing 1/13th of that which would be 2308W. Assuming at least 95% efficiency for the battery that would imply 115 W dissipation which ought to be easily handled with fans internal to the modules so that no cooling interconnection to the truck's cooling system would be required. Heating would present a problem in cold weather. Using some of the modules' energy to heat them would make for a much more practical solution than tying into the car though that would diminish the added range.

I'm thinking perhaps the electrical interface could similarly be simple - as simple perhaps as just parallel connection of the modules to the DC bus. It's tempting to think of some sort of buck converter in each module such that the amount of current it sends to the bus could be regulated to improve temperature control etc. especially as the transistors in the converter can be used as heaters. Plenty of trades for the engineers to consider.

As to charging it: a simple parallel connection means it could charge at the same time the main pack in the car is charged. The series/parallel part of the Rivian architecture would need to be considered, of course. Another alternative might be a separate charging connector (CCS) on the frame.

This thing, even with a couple of modules, is going to be expensive. I my case it would be trotted out a couple of times a year and sit in the garage for the rest of the time. There will be folks who would use it every day but a much more practical solution would be the purchase of a longer range truck. I don't see much of a market for it.

 

[jakef801]

I admittedly have the "want it now" bug in my DNA and I do make "semi-impulse" buys quite often. But, with these types of buys, I usually spend many days/weeks reading and absorbing all I can before pulling the trigger. However, with this purchase, I have to force myself to wait for the 400+ battery as I plan on towing boats, trailers, UTVs, etc. and being off road frequently.

Living in Utah, there are myriad places in my planned driving radius that are very remote and these are the locales where I plan to have the most fun with this truck (especially southern Utah and the west desert). I can easily see myself in situations where I'll be extremely glad I have the big battery. Off road travel, climbing rough/rocky roads, towing, etc. will all greatly diminish the battery life.

It was actually a no-brainer for me to reserve the bigger battery, albeit a bummer. Was really hoping that they'd offer it out of the gate. But, looking at glass half full, it will allow me 6+ additional months to see how '21 buyers are faring with their trucks. The good and inevitable bad will be well documented and, hopefully, Rivian will be able to address the necessary fixes to the '22 models. The OTA updates are awesome, but for a totally new brand, there will also be fixes/recalls that require Rivian certified mechanics. It will also give more time for the charging network to grow, regional service shops to (hopefully) open or, at least, have the claimed "at home" techs well spread out across the USA.

With taxes, this will be a $100k purchase and I'm trying to have as few regrets as possible.

Just my $0.02 for my personal preferences.

 

[Gshenderson]

Sounds like we are in the same boat @jakef801. Although in addition to UT, I need to add lots of trips to WY where’s there’s almost no L3 charging infrastructure right now. I’m in for an LE, but may very well switch out of that for the 400 mile battery if I don’t see more progress related to L3 charging infrastructure in the places where I tend to go.

 

[jakef801]

Sounds like we are in the same boat @jakef801. Although in addition to UT, I need to add lots of trips to WY where’s there’s almost no L3 charging infrastructure right now. I’m in for an LE, but may very well switch out of that for the 400 mile battery if I don’t see more progress related to L3 charging infrastructure in the places where I tend to go.

What's up fellow Utahn? Wyoming is part of my "radius" as well...especially Flaming Gorge.

 

[Lisa & Bob]

We have a business in Escalante, Utah and a home in San Diego. The distance is 615 miles. We are willing to make a stop mid way to charge. Most of our mileage is long distance -- 300 round trip due to the remote area where we live (Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument). Not concerned about local driving as it's within a hundred miles --- charging and range is the issue

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