Newest language on the EV incentive

E.S.

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Should also consider that Rivian batteries will likely be recycled.

Not only this, but include that those batteries not getting recycled are being used as storage for larger systems after they're reached their vehicle use cycle.


Regarding price point, many of us are not rich, heck not even well off. I, for one, am just underneath "well off", but I do know how to save up money to the point of being able to buy such high priced items. Despite the fact that this will indeed be my first premium vehicle, I will most definitely be looking into all the price breaks and incentives my state (or any other) provides, to the point that I *will* travel to another state and buy it there if the incentives to purchase it there is more lucrative than Florida's incentives are.
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jplblue

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Bot only this, but include that those batteries not getting recycled are being used as storage for larger systems after they're reached their vehicle use cycle.


Regarding price point, many of us are not rich, heck not even well off. I, for one, am just underneath "well off", but I do know how to save up money to the point of being able to buy such high priced items. Despite the fact that this will indeed be my first premium vehicle, I will most definitely be looking into all the price breaks and incentives my state (or any other) provides, to the point that I *will* travel to another state and buy it there if the incentives to purchase it there is more lucrative than Florida's incentives are.
Right. The notion that a $15-20k price swing (vs. alternatives) should not influence buying decisions -- simply because it's an expensive vehicle to start with -- is incomprehensible to me. Maybe us poor folks can start a GoFundMe for the forum fat cats to contribute to.
 

E.S.

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Right. The notion that a $15-20k price swing (vs. alternatives) should not influence buying decisions -- simply because it's an expensive vehicle to start with -- is incomprehensible to me. Maybe us poor folks can start a GoFundMe for the forum fat cats to contribute to.
You say a $15k-$20k price swing shouldn't influence buying decisions (be it from incentives or other methods), but regardless of this, it will. You're going to tell me that if you can get that amount deducted from the price of this vehicle won't entice anyone? Sorry, I'm calling that malarkey right out.
 

sevengroove

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You say a $15k-$20k price swing shouldn't influence buying decisions (be it from incentives or other methods), but regardless of this, it will. You're going to tell me that if you can get that amount deducted from the price of this vehicle won't entice anyone? Sorry, I'm calling that malarkey right out.
I think you misunderstood. This is what they said (with my edits removing some of their words for clarity):
The notion that a $15-20k price swing []should not influence buying decisions [] is incomprehensible to me.

They agree with you, and I agree too. I can afford a Rivian without the incentive but not having access to the incentive will definitely affect my purchase decision.
 

thrill

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It appears that setting up a seperate building (or tent) and employing union workers to bolt on the wheels (or steering wheel, or brake pedal, etc.) would qualify a vehicle for the $4,500.

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Dang ... now I know why my black wheels are such a pretty penny.
 

Rivianmd

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I can’t stress enough the importance of writing you US representative to express your viewpoint! I just did and I took me 5 minutes max typing on my iPhone 11 with big fumble thumbs. I think for most we can afford, but it is the principle
 

timesinks

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Wrote my rep and both senators asking for the first 200k vehicles to not be subject to the price caps (don't change the rules in the middle of the game), and for any limits to be phase outs (E.g., credit reduced by 1% of price over the limit) rather than hard cut offs.
 

SeaGeo

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Wrote my rep and both senators asking for the first 200k vehicles to not be subject to the price caps (don't change the rules in the middle of the game), and for any limits to be phase outs (E.g., credit reduced by 1% of price over the limit) rather than hard cut offs.
They should just remove the limits period. I understand the desire to not provide tax breaks to very high income earners for this, but the idea that you couldn't want to incentivize all EV sales is just stupid. If someone making $50k/year can save up to buy a Taycan rather than a corvette, that's great.
 

SeaGeo

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I can’t stress enough the importance of writing you US representative to express your viewpoint! I just did and I took me 5 minutes max typing on my iPhone 11 with big fumble thumbs. I think for most we can afford, but it is the principle
I've written all three of mine. I can't decide which part of the proposed value annoys me more, so I feel bad for whatever staffer reads my messages. lol.
 

Babbuino

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To be fair, the top 3 EVs sold in the US are the MY, M3 and the Bolt. None of them have the $7.5K incentive.
 

timesinks

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They should just remove the limits period. I understand the desire to not provide tax breaks to very high income earners for this, but the idea that you couldn't want to incentivize all EV sales is just stupid. If someone making $50k/year can save up to buy a Taycan rather than a corvette, that's great.
They want to incentivize manufacturers to make affordable EVs so that more people can afford to make the switch. The optics of subsidizing rich peoples' toys aren't great. It's the same reason we have the (dumb because it's not phased out) $45k purchase cap for the WA sales tax exemption (got the dealer to come down on selling price on the ID.4, but it took some work and a well-timed walk).

For upstarts like Tesla and Rivian, getting that boost from the first 200,000 vehicles while starting up market to be able to fund broadening their portfolio down market? I get it. That's why I suggested allowing the first 200,000 vehicles to continue to be credit-eligible without a sales price cap (essentially giving the upstarts the same boost Tesla had). Having a price cap or an income cap after some number of units (but not before -- this is my thing about not changing the rules mid game and yanking the rug from under Rivian, Lucid, etc.) isn't unreasonable, but, as I told my rep, if you're going to cap it, I think phase outs make much better policy than sharp cliffs.
 

SeaGeo

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They want to incentivize manufacturers to make affordable EVs so that more people can afford to make the switch. The optics of subsidizing rich peoples' toys aren't great. It's the same reason we have the (dumb because it's not phased out) $45k purchase cap for the WA sales tax exemption (got the dealer to come down on selling price on the ID.4, but it took some work and a well-timed walk).
I get the argument, but it's stupid. All it does is replace small cars that are easy to make cheaply with EVs. Environmentally it makes sense to replace large SUVs and trucks with EVs. The optics aren't there. And it's easy to say "We'd rather subsidize all EVs than continue to have people by expensive gas guzzlers" and put the limit on the tax credit to the people that are rich. Allowing high value EVs to get the credit doesn't preclude the sale of low cost EVs. All it does is incentivize electrifying small cheap cars and continue to have large gas guzzler rake in $$ for manufacturers.

The 45k thing in WA has been the bane of my existence for awhile. Want a Mach e with AWD? Nope. That's $45,595. Want the extended range? Nope, can't do it. Gotta stay within 211 miles of home with RWD only. Nice job guys. Time to go buy an AWD Rav4. Great job incentivizing realistic EVs.

Not to mention it confuses the hell out of consumers and dealers alike.

EDIT: yes, I'm a little salty that it may hose Rivian buyers specifically. But I also really dislike taking this approach. There are better ways to incentivize EV adoption while not giving a bunch of tax breaks to very wealthy people that won't really be impacted by them.
 
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Rhidan

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Setting aside the existence of price caps, setting caps that are based on Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price is a huge boondoggle.

Nobody pays MSRP. MSRP is not a real price, and already includes a profit margin for the dealership. In normal times, the vehicle should be purchased under MSRP. And anyone shopping for a new car right now is seeing dealerships charge huge premiums over MSRP. Setting a cap based on MSRP will not incentivize manufacturers to make affordable EVs because MSRP does not reflect the actual sale price of the vehicle.

The draft statute also does not appear to define MSRP. Are OEMs required to set a MSRP on new vehicles? Does Tesla provide an MSRP? Looking at a google search for Moroney Stickers for Tesla vehicles, Tesla doesn't appear to include a MSRP. An OEM could theoretically avoid this cap altogether by simply not providing an MSRP for a high-priced vehicle. If this MSRP cap passes, the agency may need to step in and explain what "MSRP" is for companies like Tesla and Rivian that sell direct to consumers.

If the government really wanted to incentivize affordable EVs, it would create a cap on the total sale price of the vehicle, not MSRP. Focusing on MSRP clearly protects the system the OEMs have created while not actually affecting the sale price the dealer will charge you for the vehicle.
 

SeaGeo

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The other stupid thing is that their "SUV" definition seems so broad that the Kona may classify as an SUV. So Hyundai could theoretically produce a luxy Kona with the same battery for 68,000 and still be eligible. But the R1S would not be, despite a being in a vehicle class that's inherently more expensive due to size.
 
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