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azbill

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Do the car companies usually give the adaptors or do you usually need to buy them separate? [ ccs, tesla, 110v, 220v]
Since these wont be used with the Tesla sc network, which companies offer super charging, im guessing i would need to have an account with each.
Chargers based on 110V, 220V all use J1772 connector. CCS is the same connector but just uses two extra DC plugs. You will not need any adapter for the Rivian, at least not on the vehicle end. Charging on 110v will be useless. GM provided me with a 110V portable charger for the Bolt, I have never used it, only provide 5 mile per hour charge, on a Rivian it would be half of that amount. Adapters are a thing that only Tesla's need, since they do not use the industry standard plugs. If you want a portable 220v charger, get one with a NEMA 14-50 connector for power and it will have the J1772 for the vehicle.

You will want to have many accounts for charging companies, because you will sometimes even want to charge at Level 2 stations, for example when staying at a hotel or resort. Or in the extreme case where the fast chargers are down and you are out of range. I have these accounts:

Blink
ChargePoint
EVGO
Semma Connect
EV Connect
Electrify America

The very best charging networks are ChargePoint and EVGO by far, but their DFDCs are mostly 50KW to 62.3KW. ChargePoint has Level 2 chargers everywhere. Blink and EV Connect are terrible for reliability, even though I have accounts with them I never do use those.

As for EA, they are still a work in progress. Reliability is still terrible, even though they are somehow claiming they have the best rating on PlugShare. I think the real issues are masked for them because they have 4 chargers at each site, but somehow one of the four finally works for people after calls to the support line.

I do not know which companies are predominate in Florida, my experience with these companies are in the southwest.
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Babbuino

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Brand/Model specific forums are generally biased source of information. In pre-COVID days, I would have suggested you attend a National Drive Electric Week event where you would have gotten to chat with various owners, see a variety of EVs and often get a chance to test drive some outside of the dealership environment. For the most part those events have gone virtual this year, but would still be an excellent source of info:
https://driveelectricweek.org/

Plug In America also has an EV support program that allows you to call in and ask questions. One time for free for non-members, then a small fee (or you can become a supporter :)):
https://pluginamerica.org/why-go-plug-in/ev-support-program/

You can also look for a local chapter of the Electric Auto Association. This is a 501(c)(3) organization of volunteers founded in 1967. IT took off in the oil crisis of the 70's as a resource for those looking to convert their gas vehicles to electric. Today, they still have a few people doing conversions, but mostly just help guide people with exactly the info you are looking for.
https://www.electricauto.org/
There are a number of chapters in FL


EVSE's are available with a wide variety of plugs, and are available with a 30A plug that should match your dryer outlet (unless it is the older style, but switching outlets is relatively easy). Dryer circuits will provide much faster charging than a 120V outlet, but slower than the Rivian is capable of.

There is a 30% Tax Credit that expires this year for the purchase and installation costs of charging equipment. If you install a dedicated circuit (and even upgraded your panel/service if needed) it would qualify even if you do not yet have an EV.


You can ball park it on the conservative side at 2.2 mi/kWh. If your incremental electric cost is $.12, it would be ~$54 per thousand miles ($.12/2.2 gives you the cost per mile).


Most manufacturers say "no" in the owners manuals, but many people do. It can be problematic with the grounding protocol of the J1772 standard and you would definitely want a sine wave type generator.


You are talking the two different "ends" for charging? There will most likely be a portable charge cord included with the Rivian. It is usually just used for 120V charging, but a few companies offer them with plug adapters (Nissan, Tesla) that allow them to be used on both 120 and 240V circuits. I think that Rivian will probably offer the latter, but they are readily available in any case.

On the vehicle side, the Rivian will use a CCS1 type connector. The plugs on both 120V and 240V charging stations use the upper part (J1772), when you plug into a DC Fast Charger, there are two additional pins that are used (the "nozzle" is physically bigger as well)

1597420534642.png


Tesla uses CCS2 in Europe, but has their own connector in the US. They provide an adapter to the J1772 standard to US owners.
There is a "Tesla Tap" available that would allow you to use Tesla 240V charging stations. These are fairly common at hotels/restaurants (Tesla provided them for free). These are commonly called "destination chargers" (instead of Superchargers that are Tesla's version of DC fast charging). They are often installed in blocks of four - 3 Tesla and one Clipper Creek J1772 (but sometimes one of each or just the Tesla). They are usually free to patrons as they are not set up for any payment method. Looking for Hotels/B&B's with these can be an integral part of route planning on long trips.


Yes, you would need an account with each. There is a standard in place that would allow querying the vehicle and billing that way (as opposed to a fob/card/phone app), but implementing it has been problematic since there would need to be a centralized database that all the charging companies could query. Tesla owns their own network and therefor keeps that info themselves (some vehicles are free for life, others have a limited free amount, some always have to pay)


I haven't, but many people use it alongside PlugShare (both have their strengths and weaknesses)


EPA hwy has an average speed of 48 mph with some acceleration/deceleration. A 300 mile EPA rating will be a combined rating, with the highway portion a bit lower (and city higher). It would likely be something like 280. This is something that we will have to wait and see, but 75 mph will yield lower range than the EPA why rating in most circumstances. Cold/wet/snowy weather (and also hot to a lesser degree) will impact range.


Off road could be rock crawling up a steep slope or just traveling along a dirt road. So ??

Hope this helps
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thrill

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Charging on 110v will be useless.
I wouldn't say useless, as it depends on your charging needs - but, generally useless during a trip, sure. I charge my i3s almost exclusively this way. It only works because of the daily miles it does and the fact that at 110v it can nearly fully charge overnight. Overnight is fine for my routine use.
 

ajdelange

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I think A Better Route Planner may use speed limit data to determine the travel time on one route versus another, rather than real-time traffic flow.
I wasn't sure on this one so I went back and checked. Yes, it does (Pemium only) use traffic AND weather information in planning your route. In the non premium (free) version it uses knowlege of speed limit and terrain. Note that you can specify speeds nominally above or below the posted speed limit. This has two effects. Obviously the faster you go the less time you spend driving but the more time you spend charging as you use more energy per mile (which also costs you more).


Generator:

It can be problematic with the grounding protocol of the J1772 standard
There is no problem with the J1772 standard. It merely checks to see whether the vehicle is grounded before it allows charging. This is insured by the house wiring when a generator is installed to code. The problem is that a portable generator is not generally properly wired into a building's system if it is wired into the house at all. These usually ship, quite properly, with neutral and frame (ground) isolated. EVSE looks for 120V between its hot input and earth. It won't see it in a properly configured portable generator and won't allow charging. There are workarounds. These are the "considerations" I mentioned in my earlier post which I hoped to avoid getting into here.

...
...and you would definitely want a sine wave type generator.
I see this one fairly often and frequently respond by asking "Where would I get a non sine wave generator?. They are rotating machines and their outputs are thus inherently sinusoidal. Note that I have never gotten an answer.
 
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Hmp10

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Thanks for the generator clarification. I began to wonder if I had almost burned the house down during Hurricane Irma.

I have a 35kW whole-house generator with a transfer switch box the size of a small steamer trunk. I assume it's safe to use again for charging the car should the need arise?
 

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ajdelange

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Yes, definitely. 35 kW is a lot of juice but keep in mind that any of these vehicles will take a 3rd of it so don't charge when the hot tub is going, both ovens are on and a load of clothes is drying all while the central air is running. Or turn charging down to 5 kW or so.
 

DucRider

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I see this one fairly often and frequently respond by asking "Where would I get a non sine wave generator?. They are rotating machines and their outputs are thus inherently sinusoidal. Note that I have never gotten an answer.
Inverter generators actually take the 3 phase AC, convert it to DC, then back to AC again.
Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV 1597442000929


Conventional generators are subject to power fluctuations with load and RPM changes inverter generators compensate for that and produce a steady power output. When converting the DC to AC, and inverter can be square wave, simulated sine/modified square wave or pure sine wave.
Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV 1597442392804
 

DucRider

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I see this one fairly often and frequently respond by asking "Where would I get a non sine wave generator?. They are rotating machines and their outputs are thus inherently sinusoidal. Note that I have never gotten an answer.
Inverter generators are used to deliver power at a steady rate with less fluctuation due to load.

They convert 3 phase AC to DC, then back to AC:
Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV 1597442715962


The DC to AC conversion can be done as square wave, modified square (simulated sine), or pure sine wave:

Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV 1597442888945


Look for a Total Harmonic Distortion (TD) rating on your generator specs. Anything above about 5 or 6% is most likely producing a modified sine or square wave.

Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV 1597443436667
 

ajdelange

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Look for a Total Harmonic Distortion (TD) rating on your generator specs. Anything above about 5 or 6% is most likely producing a modified sine or square wave.
As I said I see this misconception repeated over and over in these forums. A generator produces an electric current by rotating a magnetic field past a coil of wire. Thus the waveform is inherently sinusoidal. But coil winding pitch and span and other things are important design parameters which are set, in a good design, to minimize the generation of harmonics which distort the waveform. Also the magnetic field is varied in strength to regulate the generator's voltage and of course modulating it will distort the waveform during modulation. Frequency is, of course, determined by engine speed and if a heavy load is switched on the generator will slow down and this phase (or frequency depending on how you like to look at it) modulates the sinewave. A good generator has total harmonic distortion (THD) less than 4%. As an example the 48 kW Kohler I use in my house backup system delivers 2.7% THD while charging the car with other household loads normal. For reference, the utility delivers 2.0% (see note below).

Now I see on the internet people posting that the typical generator one buys at big box stores have really terrible THD and I mean really terrible such as 23% (which is comparable to that of a modified sine wave inverter) but that's clearly typical internet disinfo. You'd really have to try hard to screw up a generator design to realize THD that high so I suppose that if one is contemplating charging from a portable generator he ought to consider THD. IOW get a good generator.

The trend today is towards the pure sinewave technology in which the generator engine spins an alternator whose output is rectified and the DC pulse width modulated to follow any waveform the designer likes which, in this application is, of course, a sine wave. There are several advantages to doing this (besides low THD and THD is a real issue in some applications - your car's charger is largely immune to it because it is a "switcher") such as the ability to synchronize several generators and relaxation of engine speed regulation requirements (many have an economizer mode that slows the engine when the electrical load is light). Pure sine techology costs a bit more ($2600 vs 3400 for 7 kW Honda portables).

The diagrams presented in the preceding two posts contain one glaring error and that is the label declaring that conventional generators produce square waves. That is absolutely incorrect. Conventional generators produce a sine wave with some nominal level of distortion depending on the design. Other than that the only thing that is somewhat misleading is the implication that the PWM repetition rate is about 540 Hz. It is, in fact, more likely to be 25 kHz or so such that the modulating waveform is followed much more closely than the picture suggests. I checked THD from a modified sine inverter this morning and found that THD was below the resolution of the meter (0.1%).

I suppose the summary of all this is that there are those that will try to convince you that a cheap generator contains a modified sine wave inverter. While I suppose it might be possible to design, manufacture and market such a thing I can't imagine anyone doing so and that is, presumably, why no one has been able to tell me where I can buy one.

The implication is that high harmonic content is bad for your car because it is bad for some sensitive electronics. Yes, harmonics are bad. They induce large neutral currents, cause transformers to buzz and over heat and launch large negative sequence currents into the dstribution systems. But your car has no neutral connection and no transformers and, as is required of all modern power supplied connected to the grid, contains circuitry to minimize harmonics it produces. All in all it seems THD = FUD.

Note: The THD numbers I gave above were the distortions in the current drawn by the car (MX) charger. The rectifier in the car is a switcher and as such will not draw a sinusoidal current waveform from the mains even if the mains present a perfectly sinusoidal voltage waveform. Hydro Qubec's voltage waveform has a THD of 1.8%. The car's current waveform has 2.0% when charging from Hydro. Thus it's impact is small. The "power factor correction" circuit is working.
 
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Hmp10

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It seems that, despite the California Highway Patrol's blocking of the roads, someone managed to take a series of quite good shots of both the Lucid Air sedan and the SUV prototype -- quite a few more than in the "Inside EVS" article.

This was probably a photoshoot to be used for the Air reveal on September 9 and the updating of Lucid's website on that same day with specifications and order configurations.

The photos were taken by a woman sitting in the passenger seat of a Tesla Model 3. There was also another Model 3 in the photos, probably belonging to a member of the photoshoot crew.

California . . . lots of EVs out there.

Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV SUV1
 
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Hmp10

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Another angle:

Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV SUV2
 
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Hmp10

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SUV and Car together:

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