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Lucid Motors SUV

electruck

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That caddy looks pretty good!
Meh... can't say I'm a fan but it's far from the worst looking design they've ever put out. But I've never been a fan of their design language or the brand in general.
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electruck

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The new Cadillac Lyriq will hit the market about when the Lucid SUV does, but for a lot less money.
I suspect the Lucid offering is easily going to be a level above the Cadillac in every possible way.
 

Jehorton

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Meh... can't say I'm a fan but it's far from the worst looking design they've ever put out. But I've never been a fan of their design language or the brand in general.
I like it better than the lucid suv as far as I can tell but I understand everyone has their own preferences. Just like I can’t imagine how anyone in their right mind thinks the cybertruck is anywhere near “good looking “
 

skyote

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Not gonna lie, I expected a nicer looking SUV from Lucid.
 

Coast2Coast

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Well, Lucid's SUV is going to be 50% more expensive than the Caddy Lyriq, so it should be a level above in every possible way.

BEV SUVs are becoming an interesting market. Tesla's out of tax credits, so that's a factor going forward. Here's the pricing lineup I'm expecting.

Rivian R1S priced @$60-80K range, after tax credits.
Caddy Lyriq priced @$60-80K range, w/o federal tax credits. (GM is trying hard to keep prices low.)
Tesla X priced @$70-90K range, w/o federal tax credits.
Lucid SUV priced @$90-110K, after tax credits.

If this is ballpark accurate, the R1S is a tremendous value. Terrific engineering, performance and industrial design at a reasonable price. (However, we still don't know a lot of details, such as warranty, service and reliability.)
 
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DucRider

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Tesla X priced @$70-90K $80-124K , no federal tax credits.
A little higher than you thought (just checked the website - you have change from the default of "include potential savings" to see the real price (and add in the $1,200 destination charge that only shows at checkout)
 

Coast2Coast

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DucRider, thanks for the correction which makes the R1S a stronger value. Of course, all BEV SUVs can be fully loaded and thereby drive prices higher. I wanted to bracket a normal pricing range, but I should have checked on the X's pricing.

When you consider the R1S's design, engineering, performance & features, pricing is remarkable.
 
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Hmp10

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I was told the spy photos of the Lucids were taken with an iPhone 10 camera using the electronic zoom. All the pictures look elongated horizontally.

The Lucid Air is 195.5" long, thus marginally shorter than a Tesla Model S or a Mercedes E-Class. It looks more like a stretch limo in some of the shots. I'm pretty sure the SUV is not as grotesquely long as it looks in some of the shots.

There's a lot of talk in various comment sections on the internet about how expensive the Lucid is compared to Teslas. It's almost as if people have started to think of Tesla as an inexpensive car.

In 2015 I paid $128,000 for my Model S, a car with considerably fewer features and far less interior space and luxury than the Lucid Air. Even today, despite several price cuts, it's still easy to spend $110K on a Model S without exhausting the options list. I saw a recent review of the Model X Performance Raven that had a price tag just over $129,000. I've test driven the Model Y twice and think it's Tesla's best car yet in terms of comfort and ergonomics. But the quality of the interior materials scream "El Cheapo", and the base model still starts at just a few bucks under $50K. It's easy to spend $70K on one.
 

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I've test driven the Model Y twice and think it's Tesla's best car yet in terms of comfort and ergonomics. But the quality of the interior materials scream "El Cheapo", and the base model still starts at just a few bucks under $50K. It's easy to spend $70K on one.
I have a 6+ year old Model S and had planned to replace it with a Model Y this year or early next year, because I agree that the Y is Tesla's most attractive model as far as function goes. Additionally, I have some occasional lower back issues, and the low seating arrangement of the S exacerbates it on longer trips, so I wanted something more upright. But I believe I've changed my mind and will replace the S with a R1T. We tow an Airstream with our Model X, and it would be nice to have a second option as a tow vehicle. That way, if we're going somewhere that CCS doesn't have good coverage, but Superchargers do, we take the X. If there is good CCS coverage, we take the R1T. At least, that's the idea for now.

I live on a 3 acre property with vineyard and large garden that I manage myself. So there's also the upside of having a truck to do my own dump hauls, etc. I'm definitely warming up to the Rivian concept.
 

OldEVGuy

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I live on a 3 acre property with vineyard and large garden that I manage myself.
Welcome to the forum. I see you’re in Sonoma. Have you been affected by the wildfires? Hope not!
 

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ohmman

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Welcome to the forum. I see you’re in Sonoma. Have you been affected by the wildfires? Hope not!
Thanks for the welcome and the concern. Currently we're only affected by smoke and air quality, and even that hasn't been as bad as it could be, thankfully. I was not counting on wildfire season starting so soon this year. The weather appears to be stable for the upcoming week so hopefully it'll give the firefighters a fair chance at containment. Evacuation orders for Sonoma County were lifted today, which is great news for those affected.

Thanks again.
 

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It's going to be very interesting to see how the other manufacturers respond to Lucid's probable announcement of estimated EPA range of 500 miles on a 113 kWh battery. We don't know whether that is charge or discharge capacity as Lucid's strategy is now to claim high efficiency. So let's assume it is the discharge capacity. That implies consumption of 113000/500 = 226 Wh/mi which is comparable to the Tesla 3 (also about 226 Wh/mi based on the observation that a Tesla "100 kWh" battery has a discharge capacity of about 91 kWh) and is pretty good even when compared to the Lightyear One's estimated 149. It's a bit of a stretch to say these are apples to apples comparisons but at least they are all cars.

Rivian is a truck. Assuming that when they originally said their battery capacity would be 180 kWh back in the days when the manufacturers were emphasizing how big their batteries are and applying the same 91% factor the R1T would be using 410 kWh/mi. This would be compared to the Tesla CT's consumption of 328 (making the same reduction assumption on its 180 kW hr battery).

So Rivian, which I ordered with great excitement because of the 400 mile range, seems to be dropping behind in the competition for range. And now that Rawlinson has decided to distinguish his company, and I think it's a great strategy, based on efficiency, Rivian seems to be losing out there too. Will they quietly slip in an extra 20 or so kWh of battery to get their range up closer to CT's? Will Tesla slip in a few extra kW of battery to get the S range up closer to the Lucid's? Or will they sit tight and leapfrog each other in later models as battery tech evolves?
 
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electruck

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It's going to be very interesting to see how the other manufacturers respond to Lucid's probable announcement of estimated EPA range of 500 miles on a 113 kWh battery. We don't know whether that is charge or discharge capacity as Lucid's strategy is now to claim high efficiency. So let's assume it is the discharge capacity. That implies consumption of 113000/500 = 226 Wh/mi which is comparable to the Tesla 3 (also about 226 Wh/mi based on the observation that a Tesla "100 kWh" battery has a discharge capacity of about 91 kWh) and is pretty good even when compared to the Lightyear One's estimated 149. But those are all cars.

Rivian is a truck. Assuming that when they originally said their battery capacity would be 180 kWh back in the days when the manufacturers were emphasizing how big their batteries are and applying the same 91% factor the R1T would be using 410 kWh/mi. This would be compared to the Tesla CT's consumption of 328 (making the same reduction assumption on its 180 kW hr battery).

So Rivian, which I ordered with great excitement because of the 400 mile range, seems to be dropping behind in the competition for range. And now that Rawlinson has decided to distinguish his company, and I think it's a great strategy, based on efficiency, Rivian seems to be losing out there too. Will they quietly slip in an extra 20 or so kWh of battery to get their range up closer to CT's? Will Tesla slip in a few extra kW of battery to get the S range up closer to the Lucid's?
We don't really even know what Rivian is capable of yet. For the R1S, they have publicly stated from as much as 440+ miles of range to as low as 400+ for the same 180 kWh battery. Are they refining their message of under promising and over delivering? Have they made changes or learned more about the vehicle's performance and decided to derate? It's hard to know just exactly what they might deliver at this point. It most certainly will be interesting to see what all these companies actually deliver.

Here's a screen shot from their web site from 11/28/2018 reflecting the 440+ mi range:
Rivian R1T R1S Lucid Motors SUV preorder_r1s_181128
 

DucRider

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We don't know whether that is charge or discharge capacity
Battery capacities are always stated in terms of "discharge capacity" - that is the amount of energy they will make available at a specific temperature and discharge rate.

I think the "discharge" capacity you are looking at is how well your Tesla converts the battery energy, but the battery itself is supplying the "charge" capacity.

If you can reference any site that refers to charge and discharge capacity ratings, I would be glad to learn.
 

ajdelange

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Battery capacities are always stated in terms of "discharge capacity" - that is the amount of energy they will make available at a specific temperature and discharge rate.
Battery capacity is stated in terms of charge - the number of coulombs or ampere hours it takes to charge or discharge the battery between its arbitrarily chosen full open circuit voltage and its arbitrarily chosen empty open circuit voltage. This, among other things, avoids the problem of battery impedance (see below) WRT capacity.



If you can reference any site that refers to charge and discharge capacity ratings, I would be glad to learn.
I guess any basic textbook on batteries would do but just a little basic electronics knowledge is enough to explain it. A battery can be modeled as a voltage source connected in series with an impedance which has a resistive component. When the battery is charged current flows through this impedance generating some heat which is lost. Similarly when a battery is discharged current flows through that impedance, but in the other direction and again heat is generated which is lost. Therefore, you cannot get out of a battery all the energy you put into it though you can get out every coulomb you put in. That's why we use ampere hours rather than watt hours. SoC is determined from the open circuit voltage of the battery. To charge the battery in my X to that OC voltage takes about 99 kWh. But having charged it to that voltage it will be at the fully discharged OC voltage after removing about 91 kWh. Thus it takes 99 kWh to fully charge it to the point where it can deliver 91 kWh and the nominal 100 kWh capacity that everyone speaks of is close to the that whereas the discharge capacity upon which remaining range estimates are based is appreciably less than this.[/QUOTE]
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