KIA EV9 vs. Rivian R1S: Comprehensive Overview, Key Questions, Buy or Lease Scenarios?

[Electron]

I think we can turn down the temperature a little bit on what is a helpful discussion about two (potentially) great vehicles with different characteristics. No one here is trolling, just different opinions and priorities. OP, like everyone else, has a unique use case and is trying to mentally squeeze these two vehicles into that use case before purchase. The range discussion matters, as it is one of the most compelling numbers in the market, but maybe not for OP (we don't know their travel patterns). I think the whole community is trying to figure out how to translate range into life and the current fluidity of the charging environment doesn't help that. In the end, OP, and anyone reading this thread with similar issues has to make a personal decision and, hey, that may come down to something like cupholders. Regardless of what the OP chooses, I hope it works out for them because unhappy Rivian customers make for bad threads and happy EV drivers make for more EV drivers.

Also, Turo a Rivian, I think you'll fall in love.

Appreciate the input. It's funny how the small details hold so much weight, for example like the 2nd row sun shades. As silly as it may seem, it's extremely practical, especially with kids. Small details sell as they say.

As far as our choice, it's the R1S. Even if our local KIA dealer offers us the new GT-Line for $50K, we'd still get the R1S. For us it's all about having ample storage space, with all the seats occupied. With the EV9 there's no room for a full stroller, pack and play, luggage etc. as the rear boot area is not enough.

If storage space is not a primary concern for those looking, the EV9 would be and is a fantastic choice.

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[onesoil]

Thanks for the input. We've been looking for other car seats that may help with the passenger seat situation. As mentioned in the thread, we're trying to avoid having to compromise on the safety. As I'm sure you're aware, not all car seats are created equal.

Your ioniq 5 clearly was a lemon, which can happen to any car. I've had my fair share throughout the years with our honda. Stuff happens.

Comparing an ioniq 5 to a Rivian R1S is apples to oranges in so many ways. They sit in a much different class, let alone segment of vehicle. A lot of issues with the top EVs currently available, including the IONIQs, can be fixed with software. We're all still early adopters in the EV world and with time things will get better.

Tesla by far has the best UI in the industry, ahead of everyone, yes including Rivian and I don't think many would argue that. Rivian in my opinion has the 2nd best currently. As for HMG EVs I think they come in 3rd, especially with the EV9. Wireless Car Play / Android Auto works flawlessly and the interface is well thoughtout for a non all in one tablet UI design.

We've driven three R1S QMs already so far and spent a lot of uninterrupted time in two of them. It's absolutely what we want. Congrats on landing such a great deal on yours!

Thanks for the demo Rivian link, we'll take a look!

Update: It looks like all that's left at the moment are R1Ts. I'll keep an eye on it.

Yes, absolutely apples to oranges (or lemons, in my case ). And while ours was a lemon technically, it was only due to exorbitant shop time for mostly minor things that they couldn’t fix (and an ICCU failure at <5k miles that meant no AC charging for over 1.5 months), but mostly the fact that we wanted out of the vehicle (and it had lost about half of its value in the year of leasing), so it was a calculated decision that lead me down the manufacturer buyout route.

I merely brought up the Ioniq 5 because it’s the only EGMP car I’ve lived with. Truthfully, I haven’t even driven a Kia EV, let alone an EV9, but I know some of the fundamental irritations I had with the Ioniq 5 from a UX standpoint would still be present—on/off button, lack of PAAK for iPhone, slow/laggy app controls, lack of HVAC while away from vehicle, etc.

You’ve made your decision (or so it seems), and you’ve done so from an informed perspective. I personally think you made the right decision, and won’t have any regrets once you’re living with your Rivian. I certainly love mine!

To the demo Rivian tip; another thing to consider that I did while thinking about this option (vs new/lease/used): it was my suspicion that demo fleet vehicles are most likely to get prompt and comprehensive SC attention possible in their lifetime since they are either loaners, first drive vehicles, Rivian employee vehicles (which I believe mine was, since it spent most of its short 10k mile life charging at some home in Palo Alto), or showroom queens—all of which are likely to receive all the necessary mechanic attention and fitment/overlooked-QC corrections, since they want these vehicles to show prospective customers the best they have to offer.

That all being said, while mine was nearly immaculate in terms of paint and interior—it has needed front half shafts and rear dampers to be replaced. I’ve been enjoying a launch R1S loaner for the last two weeks while those items have been repaired (and while I had RUS added at my own expense). The Chelsea team picked my truck up with a flatbed and let me keep a loaner my father was using while his tonneau was replaced. They bumped me up in the que so that we could facilitate the swap with my father’s repaired truck, while taking mine away. This level of customer service, attention to detail, and common sense has been a refreshing change from what we are used to (most recently with Hyundai and Tesla—both of which ranged from merely disappointing to shockingly awful, depending).

 

[onesoil]

Also, the demo page changes periodically and R1Ss get snapped up very quickly. If you want to go that route, keep refreshing the page. Also, deals fall through sometimes and they go back to being available if the “Sale Pending” doesn’t close. There are a couple threads dedicated to this if you want more information about the process, just search “demo.”

I ended up going with an R1T because I couldn’t find an R1S demo—I was on the fence about which vehicle was right for us, and I’m ultimately glad I was pushed into an R1T after spending some weeks with the R1S (I now want both for our family—just personally glad to have the R1T).

 

[Electron]

Yes, absolutely apples to oranges (or lemons, in my case ). And while ours was a lemon technically, it was only due to exorbitant shop time for mostly minor things that they couldn’t fix (and an ICCU failure at <5k miles that meant no AC charging for over 1.5 months), but mostly the fact that we wanted out of the vehicle (and it had lost about half of its value in the year of leasing), so it was a calculated decision that lead me down the manufacturer buyout route.

I merely brought up the Ioniq 5 because it’s the only EGMP car I’ve lived with. Truthfully, I haven’t even driven a Kia EV, let alone an EV9, but I know some of the fundamental irritations I had with the Ioniq 5 from a UX standpoint would still be present—on/off button, lack of PAAK for iPhone, slow/laggy app controls, lack of HVAC while away from vehicle, etc.

You’ve made your decision (or so it seems), and you’ve done so from an informed perspective. I personally think you made the right decision, and won’t have any regrets once you’re living with your Rivian. I certainly love mine!

To the demo Rivian tip: another thing to consider that I did while considering options: the demo fleet vehicles are likely to have the most SC attention possible in their lifetime since they are either loaners, first drive vehicles, Rivian employee vehicles (which I believe mine was, since it spent most of its short 10k mile life charging at some home in Palo Alto), or showroom queens—all of which are likely to receive all the necessary mechanic attention and figment correction, since they want these vehicles to show prospective customers the best they have to offer.

That all being said, while mine was nearly immaculate in terms of paint and interior—it has needed front half shafts and rear dampers to be replaced. I’ve been enjoying a launch R1S loaner for the last two weeks while those items have been repaired (and while I had RUS added at my own expense). The Chelsea team picked my truck up with a flatbed and let me keep a loaner my father was using while his tonneau was replaced. They bumped me up in the que so that we could facilitate the swap with my father’s repaired truck, while taking mine away. This level of customer service, attention to detail, and common sense has been a refreshing change from what we are used to (most recently with Hyundai and Tesla—both of which ranged from merely disappointing to shockingly awful, depending).

That's a victory in itself! I'm genuinely happy for you to have been able to get out of dodge and getting out of that sour situation ( pun intended).

The depreciation on EVs in general is really bad (with some very few exceptions, more on that in a bit**).

EVs in general have a lot going for it, but also a lot working against it.

The sluggish EV adoption in North America. It's sad, but I understand why.

New Technology: People fear change and it takes time to adapt, similar to the transition from horse and buggy to the Model T. It's a paradigm shift.

Freedom of Choice: Many Americans resist being forced into things. Most are particularly resistant to being pushed into buying EVs. Allowing consumers to choose based on their preferences will likely lead them to realize the benefits of EVs over time. This whole transition is challenging for legacy automakers who have been reliant on internal combustion engine for so long.

Among many other factors.

We have a lot to thank Tesla for truly paving the road for EVs, because without them the EV world wouldn't be the same today. Heck for all we know it'd be hard to say that we'd even have such amazing EVs like Rivian. On the contrary, Tesla also threw a huge wrench into the EV market with their rug pull in 2023 leaving a ton of Tesla owners who bought at the peak, holding the bag.

Ex. A new Model 3 Performance in 2022 peaked at $63K! Fast forward to today, one can buy the same '22 Model 3 Performance for literally half the cost. 50%+

Couple this depreciation with the naturally faster depreciation with EVs due to the constantly advancing tech, we end up with a recipe that's not in our favor.

** The anomaly here is with Rivian for those with the voucher that were fortunate enough to buy their R1s for ~$75,000.

A new R1S, assuming that it's a Quad Motor, is now ~$95,000.

So in this situation, by Rivian increasing the price positioned those buyers extremely well to combat any depreciation factor. Huge win and very lucky for them as they're now able to flip these with virtually no loss. - Complete opposite to what Telsa did in pulling the rug from those who bought at the peak.

When it comes to dealers I'm on the side of wishing that they would all disappear. We have Tesla to thank for really pioneering the direct to consumer approach and it's truely game changing. I've actually had very positive experiences with our Tesla Service Center, but they definitely are not created equal. The ones in the big cities here are absolutely horrible.

Fun fact: Hyundai has a partnership with Amazon to sell their cars this year. I think it's called Hyundai Evolve Showroom. Neat concept, huge reach, but ultimately you have to step into a dealer, which a lot may not want to do. If they can somehow figure out a way to offer a competitive set price and only having to go to the dealer to pick it up then that may work for them.

 

[Electron]

Also, the demo page changes periodically and R1Ss get snapped up very quickly. If you want to go that route, keep refreshing the page. Also, deals fall through sometimes and they go back to being available if the “Sale Pending” doesn’t close. There are a couple threads dedicated to this if you want more information about the process, just search “demo.”

I ended up going with an R1T because I couldn’t find an R1S demo—I was on the fence about which vehicle was right for us, and I’m ultimately glad I was pushed into an R1T after spending some weeks with the R1S (I now want both for our family—just personally glad to have the R1T).

Noted and thanks for all the great info!

 

[Porfiry]

Interesting (about the heat pump). It's so conflicting. I guess we shall see when time comes.

See this thread. Heat pump is confirmed.

 

[Electron]

See this thread. Heat pump is confirmed.

Thanks for this!

 

[Rivian Head]

You will get attacked here if you don’t sing Rivian’s praise in this forum, much like Iranian theocracy would do to you if you don’t follow their dress code.
My daughter has a R1S, which was the best electric SUV 2 yrs ago. But no longer the case for most consumers with Ev9 undercutting Rivian’s price while offering better practicality. As she is expecting 3 rd child, she found EV9 to be the better choice, mainly due to better 2 nd row seats for car seats and more comfortable ride quality. Rivian has fairly tight 2nd row, and ride quality is just “ average” despite all these high tech suspension system. It clunks over broken pavement especially in low speed.
Unless you are an off roader, or plan to take 7000lbs vehicle to a track, save your money and buy EV9.

 

[Electron]

You will get attacked here if you don’t sing Rivian’s praise in this forum, much like Iranian theocracy would do to you if you don’t follow their dress code.
My daughter has a R1S, which was the best electric SUV 2 yrs ago. But no longer the case for most consumers with Ev9 undercutting Rivian’s price while offering better practicality. As she is expecting 3 rd child, she found EV9 to be the better choice, mainly due to better 2 nd row seats for car seats and more comfortable ride quality. Rivian has fairly tight 2nd row, and ride quality is just “ average” despite all these high tech suspension system. It clunks over broken pavement especially in low speed.
Unless you are an off roader, or plan to take 7000lbs vehicle to a track, save your money and buy EV9.

Thankfully the crowd here is much better than the Tesla crowd. Two very different class of people. I enjoy the Rivian community a lot and have already met some amazing people.

The EV9 is an excellent value prop if you don't need additional storage space. There are plenty landing the GT-Line for >$60K across the country, it's insane.

The "Land" Model that sits just under the GT-Line for mid $50Ks.

You're 100% correct about the 2nd row seats having more room in the EV9 for car seats, that are also quite comfortable.

The ride quality is also true in that the EV9 does ride incredibly well. This is an important point to stress, because for those who are shopping just on paper specs need to know how well the EV9s suspension is tuned. Yes, it does actually ride smoother than the Rivian QM that we drove.

Although we're all in for the R1S + R2 rsvp holders, we wouldn't hesitate for one sec to recommend the EV9 to those who are shopping EV SUVs.

On a side note, have you seen the new KIA EV3 they just revealed? It'll complete in the R3 class from the size. Looks promising. 81.4 kWh pack on the Long Range, 373 miles, and only a 0.26 drag co-efficiency.

Starting at $30K.

Here's a thread created by @narmstrong79 on the EV3 Premier.

 

[Rivian Head]

Kia makes very nice EVs. Not sure if it will be levied high tariffs.

 

[Electron]

Kia makes very nice EVs. Not sure if it will be levied high tariffs.

KIA along with HMG as a whole will be fine. They've spent $200 Million to expand the EV plant in GA, so with it being built right here in the USA, it'll also qualify for tax incentives. HMG as a S.Korean company is very different as in it being favorable in the eyes of the US. Like Brothers.

It's the chinese EVs that we don't want. Polestar slipped through wearing a volvo costume & volvo passport, no longer Swedish, that's owned by geely a chinese company. Sneaky.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

In the Bay Area, you can get a fully loaded GT EV9 for mid to high 50s after discounts. And that’s the advertised price…

 

[MasterofWilford]

OP forgot to include under the list of R1S Cons - sub-par ride quality.

I haven't gone through the thread carefully but I'm sure someone has informed OP that the EV9 has much better ride quality, which quite frankly, is very important for 90% or more of drivers. Ride quality impacts not just you, but your spouse and other passengers like your kids. Gen1 RIS is reported to have "crappy" ride quality and according to one popular reviewer, has been graded a "D".

I would therefore recommend going with Gen2 if OP is firm on Rivian. I cancelled my Gen1 order and put a deposit down on Gen2 as it's been reported to have substantially improved ride quality. The same reviewer who gave Gen1 a "D" now gives it a "B" which sounds like a pretty big improvement.

 

[Electron]

OP forgot to include under the list of R1S Cons - sub-par ride quality.

I haven't gone through the thread carefully but I'm sure someone has informed OP that the EV9 has much better ride quality, which quite frankly, is very important for 90% or more of drivers. Ride quality impacts not just you, but your spouse and other passengers like your kids. Gen1 RIS is reported to have "crappy" ride quality and according to one popular reviewer, has been graded a "D".

I would therefore recommend going with Gen2 if OP is firm on Rivian. I cancelled my Gen1 order and put a deposit down on Gen2 as it's been reported to have substantially improved ride quality. The same reviewer who gave Gen1 a "D" now gives it a "B" which sounds like a pretty big improvement.

Thanks for your input. Having a lot of time with both vehicles I can confidently say that the ride quality, suspension tuning (although not even air suspension) in the EV9 is much better than the Gen 1 QM. I did mention the smooth and quiet ride quality of the EV9 throughout the thread, but I'll surely emphasize it as you're right, it's important to 90%+ of buyers that are shopping in the 3 Row EV SUV space, as a small percentage of these shoppers are rock climbers.

 

[MasterofWilford]

Thanks for your input. Having a lot of time with both vehicles I can confidently say that the ride quality, suspension tuning (although not even air suspension) in the EV9 is much better than the Gen 1 QM. I did mention the smooth and quiet ride quality of the EV9 throughout the thread, but I'll surely emphasize it as you're right, it's important to 90%+ of buyers that are shopping in the 3 Row EV SUV space, as a small percentage these shoppers are rock climbers.

100% agree with you. As an iX owner, I really enjoy the quiet and smooth ride. I considered the EV9 but wanted a bit more overall size and larger frunk. When Gen2 R1S was reported to have substantially better ride quality than Gen1, I had to go with Gen2. If they can make it even better, I suspect it will draw a lot of interest from non-EV drivers and take away sales from the X7 and even Range Rover, that is until they come out with fully electric versions.

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