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I hope Rivian can eventually target more middle class consumers

skyote

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No, but thanks for the tip! The risk here isn't with Lucid, IMO, it's that CCIV isn't going to be the one. Looks pretty certain that it is tho. I'll doubtless grab some Tues.
Yeah, a lot of Lucid/CCIV connections, and I'm pretty confident it will be...fingers crossed because I already bought in.

I do think Lucid is a good long term investment though, so missing a few dollars on the front end to wait for confirmation is probably the smartest idea.
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Mjhirsch78

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Lucid and Rivian are both going to be safe bets (as stocks go) long term due to the clear vision and implementation. Feel very similar to Apple back in 2000, on the cusp of growth due to a solid roadmap of strong products.
 

ajdelange

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... so missing a few dollars on the front end to wait for confirmation is probably the smartest idea.
Thought there would be more action in it today than there has been. Let's defer the discussion about how smart we are for a couple of months.
 

protamine

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I'm in a different camp and of a different philosophy. If you can't pay cash for a vehicle, you can't afford it.
The last car we financed was in 1985.

I guess peoples definition of "conservative" differs. Money market accounts and CDs are all well under 1% (usually .5% to .65%). Yes, the market does allow for bigger gains, but what I would consider conservative with a guaranteed return does not. My TSLA has done quite well and a chunk of that will go towards my Rivian.

The finance market has completely flipped since '85. With rates on homes in the 11-16% rate (the average rate for cars was 12.2% for 51 months in 1985). Now they're 0-3%. Way easier to out earn the market, but way more difficult to count on guaranteed returns. Money market and CD's are out too.
 

skyote

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The finance market has completely flipped since '85. With rates on homes in the 11-16% rate (the average rate for cars was 12.2% for 51 months in 1985). Now they're 0-3%. Way easier to out earn the market, but way more difficult to count on guaranteed returns. Money market and CD's are out too.
I haven't had a car payment in years, and have liquid funds earmarked to buy my Rivian. However, due to the low loan rates, I think I'm leaning towards financing the Rivian because I think those funds can outperform in other investments.

Right now I'm thinking of a decent down payment, diversifying a portion of the Rivian funds, and keeping some "dry powder" to invest because I anticipate a market pullback.
 

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azbill

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MAIN difference, my $55 tank of gas now = $4 in charge fees and about 5 extra min of my time.
I guess Tesla charging must be really cheap. I just did a weekend trip from Phoenix to Flagstaff over the weekend, roughly 350 miles total, and the charging cost me $30. I have a Bolt with CCS and used EA and ChargePoint during this trip.

The new adminstration is also now looking at taxing EVs on a per mile basis to make up for gas tax losses, get ready to open your wallets.
 

skyote

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The new adminstration is also now looking at taxing EVs on a per mile basis to make up for gas tax losses, get ready to open your wallets.
Wow, I thought they were supposed to be pro-EV. No doubt there will be additional taxation to increase govt revenues, but I wouldn't figure they would pick on something they claim to promote.
 

ajdelange

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I guess Tesla charging must be really cheap.
It is relative to the others. I think maybe 23¢/kWh. Keep in mind that Tesla does not have to make a profit on its charging network. Musk's realization that it is a marketing device and not a profit center speaks to me of his genius as much as anything else he has done.

Other companies can, of course, gain some of the advantage that Musk has by subsidizing charging at other vendors' stations as many have done. Ford hands out a whopping 250 kWh free charging and I think Lucid is giving 3 years free. Rivian will probably do something like this and, of course, offer bargain prices at its own chargers.
 

Gshenderson

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Wow, I thought they were supposed to be pro-EV. No doubt there will be additional taxation to increase govt revenues, but I wouldn't figure they would pick on something they claim to promote.
It has to happen eventually. Roads are paid for with taxes on gasoline. If you’re driving an EV, you’re using and causing wear on those roads without paying your fair share for them. So to me it’s really a fairness issue. Note that some states (NC in particular) already charge EV owners a premium annual registration fee to account for the state’s lost gas revenue.
 

Rhidan

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The new adminstration is also now looking at taxing EVs on a per mile basis to make up for gas tax losses, get ready to open your wallets.
Where did you see that?

I've heard they are looking at restoring Tesla's and GM's tax credits, and turning the tax credit into a straight consumer rebate.
 

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ajdelange

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Wow, I thought they were supposed to be pro-EV. No doubt there will be additional taxation to increase govt revenues, but I wouldn't figure they would pick on something they claim to promote.
The roads have to be paid for somehow. I never met a tax I liked but even I have to admit that charging the people that use public facilities for their upkeep is only fair.

Also remember that one of the mantras of the anti EV people went something like "Built by billionaires, sold to millionaires, paid for by the rest of us." The old administration might have tried to cover the costs of the federal highway system by a tax on something else but the new one isn't going to do that.

Note that many states charge an extra fee for registering BEV in order to cover the lost state gas tax revenues.
 

Eager2own

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The roads have to be paid for somehow. I never met a tax I liked but even I have to admit that charging the people that use public facilities for their upkeep is only fair.

Also remember that one of the mantras of the anti EV people went something like "Built by billionaires, sold to millionaires, paid for by the rest of us." The old administration might have tried to cover the costs of the federal highway system by a tax on something else but the new one isn't going to do that.

Note that many states charge an extra fee for registering BEV in order to cover the lost state gas tax revenues.
I’m ok with paying my fair share, but I do take issue with some of the plans being contemplated... particularly again in Texas.

My first issue is that the average BEV buyer already pays a lot more in initial sales tax given that sales prices of BEVs are still substantially higher than the ICE equivalents.
The second issue is that states are over correcting. For example, in Texas, where the average driver pays $102 in annual gas taxes, the proposed law seeks to impose an additional annual fee on hybrids (which do pay some gas tax) of $100 and on BEVs of $200.
Collectively, this means that BEV drivers aren’t just being asked to cover their fair share but, rather, penalized with excessive fees.

Whether the federal government should cut back on BEV subsidies or “tax credits for the rich” is another debate I won’t jump into as much has already been written on many other forums. It’s not an easy answer as there’s no clear resolution on whether or not the federal government spends a lot more on subsidies for the gas producing industry. Therefore, folks can — and do — argue all day about whether it’s fair or not that tax dollars pay for subsidies of alternate fuel sources or BEV incentive programs.
 
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azbill

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azbill

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For example, in Texas, where the average driver pays $102 in annual gas taxes,
That number seems low to me. Assuming 12000 miles per year and 25mpg (national average) and 0.38 gas tax in TX (.18 fed, .20 state), that comes out at $182. Which is closer to the $200 for EVs.

I remember hearing that Illinois wanted an additonal $1000 per year for EV registrations.
 

Eager2own

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