Front End Structure and Packaging of Rivian R1T - Sandy Munro Live

[zipzag]

On a relevant note; Just heard Elon is banning teleworking for all Tesla employees. That may translate to Rivian getting more Tesla refugees.

Rivian likely has the same issue that concerns Musk. I would be interested to know if the Rivian senior level managers who have left the company ever moved to Normal.

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[SASSquatch]

I think everyone here needs to take a deep breath and realize that these guys are looking at the R1T from the benefit of having torn down hundreds of cars and worked with countless manufacturers.

We need perspective. They didn't say the R1T was built poorly or that any decisions were poor ones - only that there is room to optimize and reduce weight.

Well, no . Name me a manufacturer that doesn't have room to reduce weight and optimize. The other thing is that, as they claim, this is a very unique vehicle and something they have never seen before.

The R1T is trying to be a daily driver, a sports truck, and an off-roader that can take the abuse of rock crawling. No vehicle that Sandy and associates has ever torn down has been trying to do all of those things.

All of those things will lead to design choices that probably aren't optimized. One of the most optimized vehicles they've torn down is the Tesla Model Y but the build quality is absolutely horrendous but Sandy and the boys get giggly about their optimization.

The LAST thing I want is for RIVIAN to emulate Tesla. There is optimization in theory, and then the net results in practice. Does the R1T have a little extra junk in the frunk? Probably. But let's keep it in perspective...

 

[crashmtb]

I think everyone here needs to take a deep breath and realize that these guys are looking at the R1T from the benefit of having torn down hundreds of cars and worked with countless manufacturers.

We need perspective. They didn't say the R1T was built poorly or that any decisions were poor ones - only that there is room to optimize and reduce weight.

Well, no . Name me a manufacturer that doesn't have room to reduce weight and optimize. The other thing is that, as they claim, this is a very unique vehicle and something they have never seen before.

The R1T is trying to be a daily driver, a sports truck, and an off-roader that can take the abuse of rock crawling. No vehicle that Sandy and associates has ever torn down has been trying to do all of those things.

All of those things will lead to design choices that probably aren't optimized. One of the most optimized vehicles they've torn down is the Tesla Model Y but the build quality is absolutely horrendous but Sandy and the boys get giggly about their optimization.

The LAST thing I want is for RIVIAN to emulate Tesla. There is optimization in theory, and then the net results in practice. Does the R1T have a little extra junk in the frunk? Probably. But let's keep it in perspective...

It’s easy to critique design without context as to why things were done a certain way. I imagine this video’s making the rounds at rivian and there are engineers & designers shouting at their screens


Minimal parts count and fast assembly isn’t everything.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard service & repair mentioned once in any of these videos.

That’s part of DFMA too, in my view anyway.

 

[dirtdiver]

WRT the video. Sandy needs to publish something, or really anything. If the best he can come up with is over built and heavy- well Im with the guys that say, "better heavy and over built than cheap and lite". There are bound too be some beginner mistakes done in this production. But in general I hope they err on the side of overbuilt vs built for a price point.

I bought RIVN stock at the IPO and today bought another $10K. Im bullish for the long term. The short term is all in the sausage making. Part of my enthusiasm is that I believe at the highest level of RIVN staff meetings they are intent to do the right things. Make some mistakes- yes. But not a business model at the innermost core of leaders to ultimately bend us consumers over. I think they want to make something special and with value. My .02. :'-)

steve

 

[OrthoBlock]

Beefy overbuilt has almost nothing to do with safety or durability. Its just heavy.

Properly designed crumble zone and rigid structure determines the safety and durability of any vehicle.

There are momentum (mass x velocity) and kinetic energy (0.5 x mass x velocity^2) being higher for heavier vehicle so its easy to assume heavy and beefy is safer, but its not true by itself.

While I agree with the spirit of the comment, we do have to acknowledge some of the basic physics (which you've alluded to with your momentum and kinetic energy references), which suggest that other things being equal (e.g., roll-over risk, braking distances, equal ability dissipate energy [e.g., crumple zones]) a heavier vehicle will be safer.

As a crude example, a head-on collision between an oil tanker and a semi-truck, each traveling at 20 mph at time of collision, will have no discernable impact on those aboard the oil tanker, while the semi-truck, and everyone inside it, will go from approximately 20mph to a -20mph, in less than a second (i.e., a change in velocity of about 40mph in very small amount of time)--they will feel it. I know which one I would rather be aboard...

In a more realistic example, I'd rather be inside a 7,000lb truck than a 500lb motorcycle, should the two ever meet in an unfavorable manner.

 

[mini2nut]

I viewed the entire video and came away impressed. I am looking forward to the battery pack and Bosch motor tear downs.

 

[SeaGeo]

Minimal parts count and fast assembly isn’t everything.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard service & repair mentioned once in any of these videos.

This is basically my opinion about their videos as well. Munro's videos are generally focused on cost reductions for manufacturing with blinders on. If that comes as the expense of the broader goals of the manufacturer, such as repairability or performance.

I agree with @mkg3 that weight doesn't necessarily mean safety, but it wouldn't surprise me if they needed to beef up the front end for energy dissipation due to the weight of the rest of the truck, the size of the frunk, and the lack of an engine. Which is something Munro associates may not have the context on (results of crash simulations). It'll be interesting to see what the front end of the Hummer looks like as a comparison.

 

[FormerRIVTech]

"I have some friends that have left their Jobs and gone to Rivian"
"This is their first go and you can see the traces of that"

I bet after this, they are not his friends anymore and if they have any say, these guys won't be getting a contract to optimize anything.

Here are some screenshots:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/r1-teardown.3482/post-155691

Nice screenshots

 

[mini2nut]

Looking forward to official crash test results. My hunch is that the truck will achieve a 5-star rating.

 

[Tomgriff]

Level 2 chargers definitely have a place, particularly where we've been seeing them pop up, like at parks or campsites. Those are places you are staying all day or even overnight (look at the Under Canvas Moab location, perfect solution). Also, from what I understand, some/many of these are just rebranded existing chargers that required little investment from Rivian. Level 2 is fairly simple technology and requires nothing unique or proprietary from Rivian. They are marketing/branding billboards essentially.

Agreed level 2 at destinations and places where people are going to stop for several hours is great. I actually don't want a DCFC at a trailhead because I want to go hike for hours and not worry about idle fees or tying up a fast charging while I'm gone. Level 2 chargers are key for widespread EV adoption - for people who don't have home chargers and can pick up 20-40 miles while shopping or eating. Not saying we don't need more DCFC in more locations, but level 2 chargers have an important role as well.

 

[crashmtb]

Looking forward to official crash test results. My hunch is that the truck will achieve a 5-star rating.

It would be sloppy and lazy to build a clean-sheet design that doesn’t have top crash scores.

 

[140 degrees]

Interesting Video. The viewer shouldn't forget that this is primarily an advertisement for their consulting work. They sell consulting to manufacturers to improve the manufacturability of vehicle designs. Of course they are going to point out places where design choices could lead to more efficient assembly (less expensive to manufacture) and lighter (cheaper) end product. As someone else pointed out, I don't see anything about access for repair. I like that Rivian erred on the side of overbuilding the truck and were very conservative in their design choices. That being said, I do enjoy seeing these videos and am looking forward to learning more about cooling of the battery.

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