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EV charging in the US is broken: Verge article

cwoodcox

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Those are like 90% of EVs on the road, and they would've raised a sh*tstorm about the state of our infrastructure years ago. Our public infrastructure would have had to make huge strides to accommodate their needs.
Nah, they wouldn't have sold any cars without the infrastructure they built out, and public infrastructure wouldn't have invested in a project that has no benefit. A classic chicken/egg problem.

The availability of supercharging was (and is, though to a lesser extent now) the reason for their success.
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sevengroove

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Nah, they wouldn't have sold any cars without the infrastructure they built out, and public infrastructure wouldn't have invested in a project that has no benefit. A classic chicken/egg problem.

The availability of supercharging was (and is, though to a lesser extent now) the reason for their success.
I don't disagree, but I do see it as a missed opportunity. Perhaps the government should explore how they can incentivize Tesla to allow other EVs to use their network. I think that kind of project falls under the realm of expanding public charging infrastructure.
 

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I don't disagree, but I do see it as a missed opportunity. Perhaps the government should explore how they can incentivize Tesla to allow other EVs to use their network. I think that kind of project falls under the realm of expanding public charging infrastructure.
I don't know what a fair price would be for Tesla to give up a major advantage over the current competition. The actual build cost + 25%? 50%?
 

SANZC02

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Nah, they wouldn't have sold any cars without the infrastructure they built out, and public infrastructure wouldn't have invested in a project that has no benefit. A classic chicken/egg problem.

The availability of supercharging was (and is, though to a lesser extent now) the reason for their success.
I have to agree here. I looked at Tesla for awhile before I pulled the trigger in 2016 after the super chargers were available in the areas I would primarily be traveling to.
 

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Completely agree here. I think one part the article missed is diving in to the intent of why companies like Rivian are pursuing their own charging infrastructure in the first place. It's because customers like us want seamless interoperability. If Rivian wants customers to pay $80k for a vehicle, those customers are going to expect both a high level of product (the vehicle itself) and experience (primarily charging). Rivian looked at existing charging infrastructure and decided that they could not rely on it for the seamless charging experience that their customers are going to expect. The problem with this approach is that it does very little to build out an interoperable charging network that will benefit every EV owner in the long run.

Can you imagine how much further along the road (hah) we'd be if Tesla owners hypothetically did not have the supercharger network? Those are like 90% of EVs on the road, and they would've raised a sh*tstorm about the state of our infrastructure years ago. Our public infrastructure would have had to make huge strides to accommodate their needs. Instead, Tesla owners are understandably happy in their walled garden.
What makes me sad is that a big truck stop company, like Pilot, hasn't committed to EV charging. It would be great for consumers and them if they committed to adding DCFC to their facilities. They're already in ideal locations along major highways. They have the space. They have the facilities and services for EV owners to spend 20-30 minutes, easily. And it would be a big money maker for them.
 

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I don't know what a fair price would be for Tesla to give up a major advantage over the current competition. The actual build cost + 25%? 50%?
I am not sure they would look at it as giving up. As the ZEV credit market starts drying up. I think the will realize the cash cow they are sitting on and be looking at it as a revenue stream.

They can still keep their advantage by charging less for the Tesla vehicles and a premium for other manufacturers.
 

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What makes me sad is that a big truck stop company, like Pilot, hasn't committed to EV charging. It would be great for consumers and them if they committed to adding DCFC to their facilities. They're already in ideal locations along major highways. They have the space. They have the facilities and services for EV owners to spend 20-30 minutes, easily. And it would be a big money maker for them.
Would make complete sense they serve 1.6 mil people a day. Though wouldn’t surprise me if politics plays a part, Haslem is a big Republican fundraiser type and it’s oil and petroleum.
 
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sevengroove

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I am not sure they would look at it as giving up. As the ZEV credit market starts drying up. I think the will realize the cash cow they are sitting on and be looking at it as a revenue stream.

They can still keep their advantage by charging less for the Tesla vehicles and a premium for other manufacturers.
Yup, that's what I was implying too - not a sale of their network to the government, but an additional way to incentivize their assets. Perhaps the incentive is the form of a licensing agreement - others have discussed this on a manufacturer to manufacturer basis, but if the government stepped in and set up an agreement on behalf of everyone, it might remove some of the trepidation that companies like Rivian understandably have with relying completely on a competitor's network.
 

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Yup, that's what I was implying too - not a sale of their network to the government, but an additional way to incentivize their assets. Perhaps the incentive is the form of a licensing agreement - others have discussed this on a manufacturer to manufacturer basis, but if the government stepped in and set up an agreement on behalf of everyone, it might remove some of the trepidation that companies like Rivian understandably have with relying completely on a competitor's network.
As of today, the only EVs that are viable for long distance travel are Teslas (it's getting better, but not there yet). It's not that Teslas are a cheaper way to do it, it's that no other alternative exists. That is a competitive advantage they would be giving up. It also would add additional stress in heavily trafficked areas that sometimes have wait times to charge. A few dollars per charge isn't much compensation.
Try plotting a trip in many parts of the country using only CCS and you'll find some serious issues (the RAN will address at least some of those areas). In addition to more locations, Tesla also has more chargers at any given location reducing the risk of them being full or offline. The Supercharger network has also proven to be extremely reliable as to up-time.
 
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sevengroove

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As of today, the only EVs that are viable for long distance travel are Teslas (it's getting better, but not there yet). It's not that Teslas are a cheaper way to do it, it's that no other alternative exists. That is a competitive advantage they would be giving up. It also would add additional stress in heavily trafficked areas that sometimes have wait times to charge. A few dollars per charge isn't much compensation.
Try plotting a trip in many parts of the country using only CCS and you'll find some serious issues (the RAN will address at least some of those areas). In addition to more locations, Tesla also has more chargers at any given location reducing the risk of them being full or offline. The Supercharger network has also proven to be extremely reliable as to up-time.
I get what you're saying. These discussions are merely a way of figuring out how to share resources as an industry and grow together, something that E-lawn was apparently a big proponent of. Tesla are not obliged to do anything. They can keep their walled garden, use it as a competitive advantage and make bank off it. It just means they will likely not get access to any federal funding to build new charging infrastructure. No harm done.
 

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The walled garden will start biting Tesla in the ass as soon as V2 and V3 Superchargers don't seem that great compared to the competition. The V2 Superchargers with 150kW are middle of the road now, in two years it could be the bare minimum. The V3 Superchargers with 250kW can't keep pace if 800V vehicles begin to dominate. Tesla will have a hard time putting up the same numbers as Hyundai/Kia (18 mins 5-80% on a 350kW charger) if their charging infrastructure doesn't see a major overhaul.
 

cwoodcox

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What makes me sad is that a big truck stop company, like Pilot, hasn't committed to EV charging. It would be great for consumers and them if they committed to adding DCFC to their facilities. They're already in ideal locations along major highways. They have the space. They have the facilities and services for EV owners to spend 20-30 minutes, easily. And it would be a big money maker for them.
and a built-in incentive for people to stay and spend money for 20+ minutes! Eat at the Denny’s! Buy a fridge magnet!
 

azbill

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What makes me sad is that a big truck stop company, like Pilot, hasn't committed to EV charging. It would be great for consumers and them if they committed to adding DCFC to their facilities. They're already in ideal locations along major highways. They have the space. They have the facilities and services for EV owners to spend 20-30 minutes, easily. And it would be a big money maker for them.
Loves truck stops are already on board and several of them already have Electrify America chargers on site. 3 that I know of already opened:

Quartzsite, AZ
Santa Rosa, NM
Tucumcari, NM

And there is one at a Chevron station in Lordsburg, NM

And at the Dateland Travel Center, in Dateland, AZ
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