Did you cancel your Lightning reservation?

[riviancanucknb]

Back when the Chosen 10 had first crack at Rivians in Bloomington, RJ said in a sit down discussion that V2L was coming, but he didn't say when. It will require a different charger from the one Rivian is first offering - a couple sources have confirmed this - but other than this I know nothing more.

Like you, for me, V2L is essential as PG&E service in my area is unreliable and power is out a half dozen times a year on average. I don't have a generator and don't want to invest in one, if Rivian can deliver V2L. For this reason, I'm willing to wait until it's available as long as it's not forever.

I'm an early R1T preorder but, as mentioned before, I have a perfectly reliable Tacoma long bed for all things truckish, so I'm likely switching to a R1S with the hope that by the time they're being delivered, the V2L feature will be sorted and available.

I mean, I don't care about a bi-directional charger at all.

I would be perfectly happy with a setup like the Ioniq where I could make a 7.2kw 240v outlet, then plug my generator panel into that.

I don't need any fancy V2H setup - I just want V2L. My house already has a generator panel installed, as do thousands of other folks around here. Rivian won't confirm though that the hardware on the vehicle is V2L capable.

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[E.S.]

I had a Lightning reservation? Why don't people TELL me these things?!?!?!

?

 

[jjwolf120]

Rivian won't confirm though that the hardware on the vehicle is V2L capable.

R.J. did say it was capable of bidirectional at the round table discussion in Normal last year.

 

[the long way downunder]

R.J. did say it was capable of bidirectional at the round table discussion in Normal last year.

seems to me, V2L is a "no-brainer" solution to three important competitive values:
1) home backup
2) mobile 120/240v (with an onboard inverter that can ride as an accessory in the frunk for example)
3) RV / camping / "jump start" other EVs or motorsports vehicles (snowmobile, bike, motorcycle, quad, watercraft)
If Rivian can offer a retrofit to the CCS connector module that reveals an inboard port the frunk, they can strap a 10kW inverter in the frunk and hey presto … "unlimited power!"

 

[riviancanucknb]

R.J. did say it was capable of bidirectional at the round table discussion in Normal last year.

Mentioning something casually in a roundtable and an official commitment with timeline are two very, very different things.

The guides refuse to confirm V2L capability as of right now. As i said, to me it is a deal killer - and if there is still no timeline whenever I am asked to confirm my order from either Ford or Rivian (whomever is first), I will not be going ahead.

 

[the long way downunder]

Mentioning something casually in a roundtable and an official commitment with timeline are two very, very different things.

The guides refuse to confirm V2L capability as of right now. As i said, to me it is a deal killer - and if there is still no timeline whenever I am asked to confirm my order from either Ford or Rivian (whomever is first), I will not be going ahead.

In my experience, once a (competent) CEO (like RJ) says something in public, you know that 100 people in his organization have been working on that deliverable and are 100% confident it will happen – he's not Elon Musk who says things then goes back to engineering and says "so, about those gas thrusters I described to the press today …?"

Rivian "guides" are sales support staff in what's called the "fulfillment" phase of the sales cycle -- what we also call the "fool-fillment" of selling. They're not there to do anything other than "guide" the customer through ABC (always be closing) with a gentle, persuasive "light touch." Their job is to blinker the customer from distractions and to assuage their objections.

When it comes to taking delivery, whether it's Ford, GM, Tesla, Rivian or others, for every customer in the "funnel" to completing the purchase, the "12 step program" includes a step when the product that customer is purchasing is also aligned with one or more other customers in the queue – the instant customer #1 demurs or declines, customer #2 has the allocation of that production build slot and that's that. This is why individual customers can experience unpleasant delays – it means that all customers ahead of them purchasing the same vehicle specification (for Rivian this means just paint, cabin trim and off-road cladding, maybe wheels) have gone ahead with their purchases. Once Rivian production increases, these delays won't be noticeable (when 200 "waiters" from 2018 all take delivery per week in Jan-Feb '22, that's 100%, so even one 2018 waiter saying "no thank you" is discernible, but in the future, when producing 400 or 1000 units per week, if 10 or 100 waiters from 2019 say "no thank you" in Jul-Sep '22, it won't be a discernible shift in the production delivery estimates.)

 

[mini2nut]

The aluminum bodied Lightning will be history in 36 months. Ford is currently developing an all new TE1 Lightning platform for 2025.

 

[gombater]

All,
Back to original thread topic... lightning or not....

Have a reservation for a RIT and a Lightning. Both as speced are just under $80k [adventure vs Lariat extended battery]. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and specific use cases. I have a situation where I need to make a decision. R1T is scheduled for delivery 4Q2022, but they do not appear to be hitting their quotas YTD so far, so this date may push out. Really looking forward to March 10 to see YTD progress - that may be my final decision maker right there. Got my Ford Wave 5 email Thursday, looks like approx 24 week leadtime.... problem though is I have read reports that at the current rate of Ford EV sales, their tax credit allocation may be used up by then.

Ford dealer is promising no ADM, but will also not provide a purchase order draft [recommended by Ford] before placing order - guaranteeing they get the truck if I cancel. Not sure I trust them enough to not be greedy. Plus for Rivian - deliver to your door, no greedy dealers in the middle.

Curious to know forums thoughts on timing accuracy and how long the tax credit will last - through August?

Not really interested in saying which one is better - each is unique in it's own right and depends on your use case what is most important to you. I currently drive a F150 platinum which I love, but the suspension/acceleration on the R1T is impressive... Timing and cost may end up being my tie breakers...

 

[Riviot]

Curious to know forums thoughts on timing accuracy and how long the tax credit will last - through August?

Between the MME and the Lightning, Ford will likely hit the 200k mark in 1Q23. They've already built about 70k and are shooting for 200k MMEs per year (see below). At current rates, they'll be around 100k this summer. Add the rumored 1k/week Lightning starting in March and a 2 month lag time from production to sale, you get to December/January estimate for the phase out to begin.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/12/13/ford-to-triple-mustang-mach-e-production-capacities/

Now for timing accuracy... As a big spender in the supply market, Ford and Kia have much more market power to keep to their production schedules and can meet delivery promises. Tesla and Rivian are the babies, and have lost supply shares to the big wigs. I suspect more delays to come from both.

 

[timf]

Between the MME and the Lightning, Ford will likely hit the 200k mark in 1Q23. They've already built about 70k and are shooting for 200k MMEs per year (see below). At current rates, they'll be around 100k this summer. Add the rumored 1k/week Lightning starting in March and a 2 month lag time from production to sale, you get to December/January estimate for the phase out to begin.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/12/13/ford-to-triple-mustang-mach-e-production-capacities/

Now for timing accuracy... As a big spender in the supply market, Ford and Kia have much more market power to keep to their production schedules and can meet delivery promises. Tesla and Rivian are the babies, and have lost supply shares to the big wigs. I suspect more delays to come from both.

You are forgetting that Ford has been selling EVs and plug-in hybrids for a decade already. They already had over 100,000 tax credit eligible sales before Mustang Mach-e hit the market. They will hit 200,000 units sold in Q2 or early Q3 this year.

 

[Tomgriff]

If you followed Ford trucks (and the other OEMs) it was obvious a long time ago that a comparably optioned F-150 was going to be in the same ball park or more than a R1T. I when with R1T reservation several months ago as the R1T is beginning to be delivered and was clearly going to be cheaper than how I would spec a F-150. But more importantly, the more I thought about it, the R1T is more what I'm looking for, a shade smaller and off-road capable. I think if you want a work truck, the F-150 will be the way to go. Adding in the tax credit probability for R1T and that I believe Ford will sell out of their tax credits this, the R1T is a much better value at the high end. If the Lightning Pro meets your needs, it is a pretty good deal - same cost or cheaper than an ID4.

 

[Max]

The 2K watts Rivian has in the gear tunnel is not sufficient.

I wish it was 2KW.

Can someone tell me what V2L is? Is it automatic switching of the power direction? Or amount of power that makes something V2L? In other words what is the difference between running a long extension cord from my fridge to My R1S? And V2L setup in F150? Are the inverters different? In other words if my power consumption is within the limits of R1S (1500 watts), is there any disadvantage other than inconvenience to use R1S vs V2L setup in F150?

granted 1500W is really not sufficient in outage but it is better than nothing. I think 2.4 KW in F150 should be the minimum in Rivian as well. The fact that you can get 9.6 KW power out of a $40K+ F150 (if you can get your hands on one) is quite appealing but as bad as I want that, not having to deal with a Ford dealer makes the 1.5 KW compromise worth it.

I just hope Rivian is clear with the plan to bump it up if there is one.

Curious to know forums thoughts on timing accuracy and how long the tax credit will last - through August?

I think you have a quarter after they hit 200K so you may be OK. Even after that is a gradual phase out so you still get something.

 

[the long way downunder]

I wish it was 2KW.

Can someone tell me what V2L is? Is it automatic switching of the power direction? Or amount of power that makes something V2L? In other words what is the difference between running a long extension cord from my fridge to My R1S? And V2L setup in F150? Are the inverters different? In other words if my power consumption is within the limits of R1S (1500 watts), is there any disadvantage other than inconvenience to use R1S vs V2L setup in F150?

granted 1500W is really not sufficient in outage but it is better than nothing. I think 2.4 KW in F150 should be the minimum in Rivian as well. The fact that you can get 9.6 KW power out of a $40K+ F150 (if you can get your hands on one) is quite appealing but as bad as I want that, not having to deal with a Ford dealer makes the 1.5 KW compromise worth it.

I just hope Rivian is clear with the plan to bump it up if there is one.



I think you have a quarter after they hit 200 so you may be OK. Even after that is a gradual phase out so you still get something.

V2L or "vehicle to load" assumes using the CCS port. Some vehicle makers use V2L to mean any onboard 120V outlet. I think that's just marketing.
The onboard power of the F-150 Hybrid (we won't know about the 9.6kW system in the Lightning till it exists) is an inverter outputing 120V and 240V up to 30A or 7.2kW – taking power directly from the engine, buffered through a 1.5kWh onboard battery so that the engine can shut off during light loads.
I don't know if there are rules for these new acronyms, but I group V2L with V2G (grid) and V2V (vehicle) and V2X ("X" for variable or "anything") … it's a DC output with some power limit (presumably somewhere between say 75 and 350kW) which is some serious lightning in a bottle.
V2G is the most complicated because it involves cooperation with the local power monopoly operating the power grid and requires safety equipment to prevent the generator (vehicle) back-feeding power into the grid unless that circuit is ready to be energized remotely. It's also a corporate game where the grid operators don't want the threat to their monopolistic control of the production of electricity.

 

[EVTrucking]

Canceled MME and Lightning. Bought EV6 GT-Line and reserved a Silverado EV.

The EV6 will tide us over until our R1T is finally delivered. We are expecting the estimated delivery to slip 6 months or more.

The Silverado is backup just in case Rivian’s production issues continue long term.

 

[Scoiatael]

Between the MME and the Lightning, Ford will likely hit the 200k mark in 1Q23. They've already built about 70k and are shooting for 200k MMEs per year (see below). At current rates, they'll be around 100k this summer. Add the rumored 1k/week Lightning starting in March and a 2 month lag time from production to sale, you get to December/January estimate for the phase out to begin.

https://www.electrive.com/2021/12/13/ford-to-triple-mustang-mach-e-production-capacities/

Now for timing accuracy... As a big spender in the supply market, Ford and Kia have much more market power to keep to their production schedules and can meet delivery promises. Tesla and Rivian are the babies, and have lost supply shares to the big wigs. I suspect more delays to come from both.

Ford is hurting bad from the chip shortage right now. I doubt they'll hit their 1000 Lightning a week goal unless they already set enough chips aside for this model year. I'm still expecting to get my Lightning this summer, but wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed back.

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