Circle K charging station experience by Out of Spec Kyle (with Rivian R1T)

[Riviot]

tool

I find Kyle much more tolerable than the other dude with 30 minute long videos and you learn NOTHING.

Today I learned: people still buy Smart water.

Sponsored

 

[EBEG]

"could easily" and then you describe an overly complicated set of steps that make assumptions that aren't valid.

Here is what it should take:
Step 1: tap your card
Step 2: plug in your EV

You add any additional steps to that process - then you've failed.

How about this:

1. Plug in, credit card associated with vehicle gets charged.

 

[COdogman]

How about this:

1. Plug in, credit card associated with vehicle gets charged.

I’m not 100% sure but part of what makes every credit transaction legal and secure is that each person still has to approve each purchase. At our business we require that everyone have a card on file but we are still required to ask them if that is the card we would like to use and get their signature authorization.

Otherwise every single person could drive home and dispute the charge with their credit card company and the business almost always loses those disputes without a signature.

 

[EBEG]

I’m not 100% sure but part of what makes every credit transaction legal and secure is that each person still has to approve each purchase. At our business we require that everyone have a card on file but we are still required to ask them if that is the card we would like to use and get their signature authorization.

Otherwise every single person could drive home and dispute the charge with their credit card company and the business almost always loses those disputes without a signature.

The post I responded to indicated they want charging to work like a gas pump. I happen to think having screens and credit card readers on the charging stations is unnecessarily redundant, expensive and adds a failure point. However, it is irritating to maintain an account with each charging network. To simplify the process, I want the vehicle to manage the charging network accounts/connections and pay via credit card on file with Rivian. This obviously requires Rivian to have agreements and accounts in place with the charging networks and for the charging networks to recognize individual vehicles. Neither issue seems insurmountable to me. I suggesting charging information about individual chargers, including cost, could be displayed through the map inside the vehicle.

Some people thought looking at the map for cost information and approving the the charge on the Rivian app or inside the vehicle was too complicated, so I shorted the process.

You have a fair point about authorization - I'm not sure if a previous agreement with a vendor and having a credit card on file coupled with a secondary act (plugging in) is enough. To me, this is more secure than a credit card tap, but I'm sure someone on the board knows.

 

[Autolycus]

Separate apps and accounts for each network is an awful situation that we're in right now. The NEVI grant requirements do include an eventual requirement for plug and charge and for the networks to work together on simplifying the user's end of payment.

As for payment authorization... I guess none of you have auto-pay on any utility bills, streaming services, etc? The authorization for a card on file is no different than those. My city garbage and water are on auto-pay with a CC. The amount varies each month. I don't have to approve each payment because I gave a general authorization for them to charge me what I owe. Same thing works for payment to an EV charging network. Blanket authorizations of that type are NOT illegal or against the terms of a CC.

 

[mmiles2012]

I’m not 100% sure but part of what makes every credit transaction legal and secure is that each person still has to approve each purchase. At our business we require that everyone have a card on file but we are still required to ask them if that is the card we would like to use and get their signature authorization.

Otherwise every single person could drive home and dispute the charge with their credit card company and the business almost always loses those disputes without a signature.

www.gocariq.com - my second shameless plug. These guys have plug and charge 100% solved for fleets today. When it gets integrated into OEM head units, watch out.

 

[COdogman]

www.gocariq.com - my second shameless plug. These guys have plug and charge 100% solved for fleets today. When it gets integrated into OEM head units, watch out.

That looks very promising. I wasn’t even considering that fleets have been looking for similar solutions for a long time. As long as it’s secure I’m all for it.

 

[mmiles2012]

Yea, the idea for fleets is that you can take the fleet card out of drivers' hands and thereby prevent fraud. But it's also real-time location-based payment authorization and authentication based on a physical device - aka a more secure credit card.

 

[pc500]

I mean, can't they just find a way to stick a $300 ipad in a case and let it scan the cards? This is not a difficult science.

 

[Brewbud]

I don't mind having apps associated with a specific charger. I put them all on one screen of my phone so it is easy to select. I can also use the app to see if the current charges and idle fees associated.

 

[VSG]

That's way too practical. It's easier to be outraged.

 

[TexasCrane]

Oh my goodness is that a needlessly complex, pointlessly expensive screen and payment system that will be prone to failures, coupled with a mediocre charging speed.

When will these charging manufacturers grasp the point that Tesla's simpler approach is the way to go? On-charger payment systems are about a absurd as toll booths.

On what planet is that a mediocre charging speed? It’s faster than a Tesla Supercharger.

 

[SeaGeo]

I don't mind having apps associated with a specific charger. I put them all on one screen of my phone so it is easy to select. I can also use the app to see if the current charges and idle fees associated.

Where's your shell recharge account that requires prefunding with money? What about your Zef account? And your EVCS account? Red E? Flo? Francis Energy? Sema Connect? How are you handling when you need to download one at the last minute and have shit cell connection?

My real world experience that pushed me over the edge from going "this is mildly annoying" to "this is incredibly stupid":

In November we did a road trip, and decided to stay at a hotel overnight. About a block away was a 50kw charger. Decided to try it out at the last minute since I wouldn't get a full charger at the L2 at the hotel overnight. It was less than 30 degrees out, and the wife and dog were in the truck, and it was about 11:30.

downloaded shell recharge app. Then had to create an account and put my cc info into the app, which is a slow and obnoxious process. Then had to prefund it (and apparently continually always overfund) with like $5 or $10. Then played "is this dumb ass app doing to work with this charger" roulette for about 10 minutes. The process took about 30 minutes, and shell is holding on to money for zero reason. I haven't had a reason to use a shell recharge charger before or since. Do I trust them with storing my private info? Not really. I half expect them to get hacked at some point and have to go through the hoops of changing my cc number out.

On a related point of annoyance I had previously used and setup an account with SemaConnect years ago for some L2 charging. A couple of weeks ago I had a conference in town and conveniently the parking garage at the conference center had some L2 chargers. Sweet, right?! I can get some free charging for a few days! The charger was free to use! Except you still had to activate it, and it was in a parking garage with very little signal. The SemaConnect app had to reinstall the first day, and the second day never actually worked. Their website worked, but I had to take a photo of the charger number, walk out of the garage to get a signal, enter it on their website, and then activate the charger. The experience sucked. I watched multiple people struggle with it and spend a good 10 minutes trying to get it to work each time.

Are apps fine, especially when you routinely use a network? Sure. Are they really really annoying when you want to use the network once? Yes. Is it very frustrating when the app is the only way to activate a charger and the app sucks or you don't have cell connection, or your phone battery is dead? Yes.

 

[SeaGeo]

The post I responded to indicated they want charging to work like a gas pump. I happen to think having screens and credit card readers on the charging stations is unnecessarily redundant, expensive and adds a failure point.

Redundancy is a reliability benefit.

App not working? Great, you can use the credit card reader! CC reader not working? Great you can use the app! It's not like if one fails, the both have to.

On my last roadtrip, the EA app didn't for multiple charging sessions. You know what did work? NFC with it. And CC readers.

What would help is if they would stop using these low quality cc readers that were seemingly developed for vending machines indoors and exposing them to the elements constantly. At least put a hood over them or switch to the style pumps have been using reliably forever.

 

[HokieR1T]

At least Circle K is doing something. Forgive me, but I"m a little salty today about RAN and membership. Per the last information I have, free RAN charging ends this month. I have yet to see a working RAN station (so close Blowing Rock, but I'm sure you will be back online May 1). Charlotte, NC, Meadows of Dan, VA and so many other locations not on the west coast have been nothing more than concrete pads and conduit for a year or longer.

I don't think we should get free charging for life, but Rivian made such a big deal about RAN, free charging, and membership. Some of you have enjoyed it. Many of us haven't and never had an opportunity.

so Circle K.... thank you. you may not be perfect, but are trying to build something, and I appreciate it.


EDIT- And Blowing Rock RAN is now showing active on my app. Maybe my e mails Thursday evening and messages yesterday made a difference??

Sponsored