Anyone worried?

staples

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I had no idea it was required. Which agency levies this requirement? I'd like to know more so any website links etc would be appreciated.
It'd would be great if that were an actual requirement, but sadly my US made BEV motorcycle only has a 5 year battery warranty. Maybe DucRider's sources will illuminate the difference between car and motorcycle battery warranty requirements.
 

jjwolf120

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In California, the requirement is 10 years 150,000 miles.
 

ajdelange

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Is this a CARB related thing?

Never mind. Answered my own question. It is.
 

ajdelange

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Tesla offers 8/100K for 3 and Y, 8/120 for 3 and Y performance and 8/150K for S and X (to 70% capacity). Certainly Rivian will have something similar if not a wee bit better because 9/160K would allow them to claim "best warranty" at small additional expectational risk.
 

DucRider

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Tesla at least used to offer unlimited mileage on the S/X battery warranties, but they also used to specifically exclude degradation (and loss of range) from their battery warranties.
Until the 2020 MY, Hyundai offered an unlimited warranty - both time and miles - on their EV batteries. It is now 10/100K.
 

CappyJax

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If they won't provide a way to upgrade their battery packs, then I won't buy one. We already have to make a lot of compromises by buying an electric vehicle, and if I have to live with those compromises for the life of the vehicle, then I it doesn't make sense for me to buy one until those compromises no longer exist. I am not the type of person to cycle through vehicles. My current car is 15 years old and I am very happy with it. I would keep something like the Rivian for 15 or 20 years as well. But if I am going to be stuck with 150 mile range while towing for the life of the vehicle, then I would rather just go for a hybrid truck.
 

Rockstar2020

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First of all let's be clear. When people on this forum say "the investors will not let them build a bad product" they are out of touch with reality. There are many companies where the investors lost everything as the company had unforeseen problems and went bankrupt. Fiskar Automotive in 2013 for example. Tesla may not be a good comparison to Rivian. Tesla had stores, superchargers and service centers set up when they launched. And as a first Tesla Model X owner I can tell you there were several issues, the worst was inability to get parts in a timely manner. This caused me to sell my X. Now as a Y owner I know that problem has been resolved for the most part. I canceled my R1T order because I did not want to go through this again. I still may buy one but not until a one year customer feedback file has been established. I would recommend you get the new 2021 F150 which is a game changer and then get a Rivian in 2024 if they are meeting everyone's expectations.
 

bajadahl

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If they won't provide a way to upgrade their battery packs, then I won't buy one. We already have to make a lot of compromises by buying an electric vehicle, and if I have to live with those compromises for the life of the vehicle, then I it doesn't make sense for me to buy one until those compromises no longer exist. I am not the type of person to cycle through vehicles. My current car is 15 years old and I am very happy with it. I would keep something like the Rivian for 15 or 20 years as well. But if I am going to be stuck with 150 mile range while towing for the life of the vehicle, then I would rather just go for a hybrid truck.
I kept my LX470 for over 20 years. I am just shy of 50 and have owned a total of 3 new cars in my life. 7 if you count the 4 I've bought for my wife over that same span. I typically expect a car to run 10-15 years worry free and I've had pretty good luck or maybe made good purchase decisions. (3 Toyota's, 3 Honda's, and now a Subaru which is only 1.5 years old). Am I nervous about Rivian... yes I am. I want the battery to be upgradeable but I will settle for serviceable. This may end up being the wrong vehicle for me but I am still on board for now.
 
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I kept my LX470 for over 20 years. I am just shy of 50 and have owned a total of 3 new cars in my life. 7 if you count the 4 I've bought for my wife over that same span. I typically expect a car to run 10-15 years worry free and I've had pretty good luck or maybe made good purchase decisions. (3 Toyota's, 3 Honda's, and now a Subaru which is only 1.5 years old). Am I nervous about Rivian... yes I am. I want the battery to be upgradeable but I will settle for serviceable. This may end up being the wrong vehicle for me but I am still on board for now.
Same boat. Worried but will take the plunge and deal with whatever comes with it.
 

MattpR1T

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Rivian has a patent on a series parallel switch that allows the battery to charge at 800vdc and run traction drive at 400vdc. This is likely the change that upped the max charging from 160kw to over 200kw.
I consider this to be very unlikely.
New battery tech will almost certainly require different charging parameters, cooling needs, and who knows what else. If Rivian ships with 400V batteries and motors, it makes it even more unlikely that a swap will be possible as almost certainly the next gen will be 800V.
By the time you switch out the pack and all the associated computers, sensors, plumbing, etc it is very likely that you are better off selling and upgrading. There is a remote possibility that you would be able to swap in a bigger "old tech" pack, but that is also likely to be of questionable value unless you must have additional range for the vehicle to be functional for your needs. Even then the sell/trade scenario could very well offer other benefits, such as faster charging.
 

discsinthesky

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I wonder if we'll see a market for third party "like for like" battery service/swaps emerge as the BEV market becomes more mature. To me, this is a huge advantage of BEVs over ICE vehicles. Assuming batteries are the limiting component, the idea of swapping/servicing the battery and getting another 400,000 mi out of the rest of the drivetrain/vehicle is highly appealing to me for many reasons.

EDIT: To expand on this a bit, I think a marketing niche for BEVs that I haven't seen yet is the potential circular economy/ultra-longevity angle. Buy a vehicle once (perhaps with higher upfront cost), keep it forever, with battery swaps as necessary. Given the reduced part counts of BEVs, swapping a battery pack and being on your way seems way more feasible than finding a part from a junkyard for your 30 year hold ICE vehicle.
 
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DucRider

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Rivian has a patent on a series parallel switch that allows the battery to charge at 800vdc and run traction drive at 400vdc. This is likely the change that upped the max charging from 160kw to over 200kw.
Charge rate is 300 kW, and this will indeed be in the neighborhood of 800 V. The only question is whether they utilize 400 V components (motors, etc) and implement the switching hardware and software, or just make to move to an 800 V like the Taycan, Lucid, future Kias, etc. My money would be on the latter. There are many patents filed that never make it to production. I believe this will be one of them.
 

CappyJax

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Charge rate is 300 kW, and this will indeed be in the neighborhood of 800 V. The only question is whether they utilize 400 V components (motors, etc) and implement the switching hardware and software, or just make to move to an 800 V like the Taycan, Lucid, future Kias, etc. My money would be on the latter. There are many patents filed that never make it to production. I believe this will be one of them.
I think the big issue with going all in for 800V is the lack of 800V charging stations. Having the ability to charge off of 400V and 800V stations would be more logical.
 

DucRider

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I think the big issue with going all in for 800V is the lack of 800V charging stations. Having the ability to charge off of 400V and 800V stations would be more logical.
An 800V system can charge at 400V stations, it just take longer (it is converted internally). All the EA sites have 900V on their 350 kW chargers (no other way to get that power), but their 150 kW handles will be 400V (actually up to 500?)
 

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