Anyone worried?

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
So I am in no means a wealthy person, not saying I am poor or even close to that, but paying for my 2018 f 150 was a decent chunk for me. My biggest worry here is I am planning to sell my very established ( and awesome 3.5 eco boost ) to get a BEV which considering is a new technology and one that is constantly going to evolve at a rapid pace. Also shelling out more money for a BEV truck company that is also brand new and no offense to anyone here but unproven. Not saying anything bad about any of the new companies coming out but until they have their products out of the streets and work out the kinks, there will be kinks, there is no knowing how reliable they are. Does anyone know how the process was owning the first released Tesla’s? I believe that will have a close representation of what it could be to own a Rivian or any other newer BEV company. How do you get around issues and maintenance? And the biggest worry I have is how do you jump into the unknown of something new when there’s a good chance there will be initial issues with these vehicles ? And like I said above with the battery technology always changing and improving, how do we buy an early BEV vehicle when there’s bound to be a much better battery right around the corner?
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
723
Reaction score
598
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
1) My worst vehicle experience was with a 2012 F-150 & that 3.5L EcoBoost. Even the top selling vehicles can have issues.
2) There will be kinks, but I am confident Rivian will be able to address them. This skateboard has been in extensive development & testing for years. Anything other than the skateboard should not be too difficult to fix.
3) Think of the $6B in investments in Rivian. There is absolutely zero chance that those investors will allow Rivian to perform poorly. These are big financial bets that require a successful company in the longer term.
4) I just feel like Rivian is the type of company that engineers & tests extensively to minimize most faults. I also get an intensely ethical sense, which should bode well for early customers. And due to #3 above, they have the funding to do the right thing.

However, I am curious about the realities of the service experience. How quick & easy will it be?
 
Last edited:

ElectricTrucking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
230
Reaction score
122
Location
Cave Creek AZ
Vehicles
Porsche 911
Everything is just around the corner it just depends on how many corners you have and how long you want to wait.
Maybe Rivian should say we really like this axle and lets just wait until it is ready, whats more months or years matter.

AVL Develops Impressive E-Axle

https://www.avl.com/web/guest/-/avl-e-drive-solution


1594726260784.png

4:20 thru 10:26
 
Last edited:
OP
Jehorton

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
1) My worst vehicle experience was with a 2012 F-150 & that 3.5L EcoBoost. Even the top selling vehicles can have issues.
2) There will be kinks, but I am confident Rivian will be able to address them. This skateboard has been in extensive development & testing for years. Anything other than the skateboard should not be too difficult to fix.
3) Think of the $6B in investments in Rivian. There is absolutely zero chance that those investors will allow Rivian to perform poorly. These are big financial bets that require a successful company in the longer term.
4) I just feel like Rivian is the type of company that engineers & tests extensively to minimize most faults. I also get an intensely ethical sense, which should bode well for early customers. And due to #3 above, they have the funding to do the right thing.

However, I am curious about the realities of the service experience. How quick & easy will it be?
So I think that the eco-boost comparison kinda plays into my worry. You got a newer idea that had its issues. My eco boost has been nothing but a dream. No issues and such a great truck. So they worked out the kinks over the years.

So now we are lined up to buy a brand new concept off a new assembly line. that’s my worry is the unforeseen issues.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
518
Reaction score
207
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
I wouldn't say the technology is new at this point but it is definitely still evolving and there is always risk of obsolescence with new technology. Within months of my purchase of a Tesla they increased the range for my model by 19%. This is easily dealt with for people of unlimited means but that's not most of us.

Clearly you are a fool if you buy a low serial number high tech product. OK, let's admit it. Everyone on this forum with a reservation on a Rivian is a fool. Rivian have not built a single production R1T. Building cars is like any other art (and it is an art). With practice one learns and improves and later trucks are going to be better than the first ones off the line.

While we may all in reality be fools we are acting foolishly with our eyes open. Scaringe and company have convinced us that they are proceeding cautiously and prudently such that the early production, while it may not be as good as it will later become, is going to be at least adequate and have promised us "white glove" service to handle any problems which we may experience. Exactly what form this will take is yet to be seen but I must say that R.J. does inspire confidence.

The history of Tesla has been mixed. Horror stories, mostly about service, abound and there is no doubt that even though things are much improved the service aspect of their business needs improvement. And yet, while Consumer Reports finds the Tesla Model X the least reliable car sold in America it also finds Tesla to score highest in user satisfaction. IOW people don't care about the service experience because they love the other aspects of ownership so much. Clearly the appeal of driving a high tech, environmentally sound vehicle bears a lot of weight with owners and I suppose the advice I would give OP is to think about why he chose a Rivian. If he is just looking for another truck then it's probably not the best choice. If he likes the concept well enough to be able to tolerate some probable burps associated with a new production product then go ahead.

Yes, I think we all worry to some extent about this aspect of buying a Rivian but I don't think anyone is losing sleep over it.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
337
Reaction score
283
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2018 Volvo XC60
Change is scary and new tech does tend to be more expensive and less reliable. Unfortunately this is the price of progress.
 
OP
Jehorton

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
I wouldn't say the technology is new at this point but it is definitely still evolving and there is always risk of obsolescence with new technology. Within months of my purchase of a Tesla they increased the range for my model by 19%. This is easily dealt with for people of unlimited means but that's not most of us.

Clearly you are a fool if you buy a low serial number high tech product. OK, let's admit it. Everyone on this forum with a reservation on a Rivian is a fool. Rivian have not built a single production R1T. Building cars is like any other art (and it is an art). With practice one learns and improves and later trucks are going to be better than the first ones off the line.

While we may all in reality be fools we are acting foolishly with our eyes open. Scaringe and company have convinced us that they are proceeding cautiously and prudently such that the early production, while it may not be as good as it will later become, is going to be at least adequate and have promised us "white glove" service to handle any problems which we may experience. Exactly what form this will take is yet to be seen but I must say that R.J. does inspire confidence.

The history of Tesla has been mixed. Horror stories, mostly about service, abound and there is no doubt that even though things are much improved the service aspect of their business needs improvement. And yet, while Consumer Reports finds the Tesla Model X the least reliable car sold in America it also finds Tesla to score highest in user satisfaction. IOW people don't care about the service experience because they love the other aspects of ownership so much. Clearly the appeal of driving a high tech, environmentally sound vehicle bears a lot of weight with owners and I suppose the advice I would give OP is to think about why he chose a Rivian. If he is just looking for another truck then it's probably not the best choice. If he likes the concept well enough to be able to tolerate some probable burps associated with a new production product then go ahead.

Yes, I think we all worry to some extent about this aspect of buying a Rivian but I don't think anyone is losing sleep over it.
Very well put.
 

Lmirafuente

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lionel
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
179
Reaction score
170
Location
California
First Name
Lionel
Vehicles
BMW740i, Trailblazer, Audi Cabriolet
You can also look at it this way.

Rivian has brought in some of the brightest people from big car manufactures, from Tesla, Mclaren, Porsche, etc... The company RJ has built was to start from a blank slate and avoid the pitfalls of it predecessors.

When you look at the moving parts of an electric engine, you are talking about 25 moving parts. An ICE is around 350 moving parts. There is a lot more that can go wrong with an ICE. As far as the suspension all that is not new and the rigor that they continue to put it through is ongoing.

Then you look at electric components. Those will typically fail quickly and they can adjust as needed. they have had 10+ years to figure out the electronics. Software updates over the wire will adjust things accordingly. And as you know Level 3 Autonomy will be a hardware upgrade/add-on later.

Fit and finish will probably where things will be more noticeable over time.

I agree support will be interesting to experience. When at the Overland West expo in 2019 I talked to RJ then and I know that was an ongoing focus internal as they do not want to have the issue Tesla had. Specifically with inventory of parts like broken windows due to vandalism...took a while for Tesla owners to get replaced. All those hiccups I am sure RJ and team are preparing for...but time will tell.

Yes there is always risk. I am willing to take it with all us fools (if you will)...
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
723
Reaction score
598
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
@Lmirafuente summed up my thoughts perfectly.

I'm mildly concerned about fit & finish issues, but believe the drivetrain components will be solid & anything else should be fairly easily addressed.
 
OP
Jehorton

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
I guess just the fear of purchasing and yet a few months later a new and improved battery comes out.
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
723
Reaction score
598
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps & 2500HD Duramax
I guess just the fear of purchasing and yet a few months later a new and improved battery comes out.
It will be interesting to see what Tesla announces regarding battery tech, but I think significant advancements are likely 5 years from the market.

I hope I'm wrong & battery tech advances faster, but the current Rivian range will work fine for me & for most people.

The "killer app" for me relating to battery tech will be for a full size truck capable of towing reasonable distances.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
518
Reaction score
207
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
I would not worry that that might happen as I know that will happen.

When Rivian revealed a year and a half ago it promised 400 + miles range at a time when around 300 was considered good and over 300 outstanding. As I mentioned in an earlier post 350 is now considered good and 400 has already been topped. One of the biggest appeals of the Rivian, for me anyway, has been blown away by the competition in 18 months and Tesla now promises 500 for their pickup. This is how it is with high tech. You just bought the 10 megapixel camera and the competitor announces the 15.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
518
Reaction score
207
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
It will be interesting to see what Tesla announces regarding battery tech, but I think significant advancements are likely 5 years from the market.
I expect the CT 500 mile range will derive from new battery tech that will be announced 22 Sept.

I hope I'm wrong & battery tech advances faster, but the current Rivian range will work fine for me & for most people.
300 miles is plenty for most people for most applications. Someone elsewhere pointed out that extra range in a BEV is like extra runway - may not be needed most of the time but very comforting knowing it's there. But I also note that 350 - 400 seems to be where bladder assumes more importance in trip planning than battery and thus makes a BEV journey more like an ICE one WRT to pit stops.

The "killer app" for me relating to battery tech will be for a full size truck capable of towing reasonable distances.
That just means more battery. The 500 mi CT can tow 14,000 lbs about 250 miles (depending on conditions). A CT with 20% more kWh/kg would have 600 mi range and tow that same load 300 mi. What's "reasonable" is up to you to decide. If there is a Moore's law equivalent for batteries with a time constant of 10 years (as some have suggested - compare to 1.5 years for Moore's law) we calculate that this 20% gain will take 2.6 years.
 
OP
Jehorton

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
@ajdelange how do you get to the point of knowing battery equivalents and what those translate to ranges and life overall?
 
OP
Jehorton

Jehorton

Well-Known Member
First Name
James
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Messages
87
Reaction score
25
Location
Stuart Florida
First Name
James
Vehicles
2018 Ford F-150
Occupation
Firefighter
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
Also could you see Rivian changing their current battery pack to a newer one before official sales begin?
 
Top