800v charging capability, when?

[DuoRivian]

I don't think that's a good idea. Need to get off oil ASAP and hybrid isn't going to help that. That's why most charging locations are in large cities. It's for people that don't have home charging.

Completely wrong, hybrids help a huge amount. Take the new Camry which is twice as efficient in city and 10-20% more efficient highway than the previous gen ICE. They have cut, with minimal cost to the consumer and no change in fueling habits, at least half the fuel used. If that was done for every vehicle then gasoline usage would fall by a similar amount / that has an impact. So instead of focusing on the perfect BEV (although still issues with how the electricity was generated and extra carbon cost building the batteries) let’s help with a transition that makes a difference and is easy to implement (as Toyota is showing with the RAV4).

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[emoore]

Completely wrong, hybrids help a huge amount. Take the new Camry which is twice as efficient in city and 10-20% more efficient highway than the previous gen ICE. They have cut, with minimal cost to the consumer and no change in fueling habits, at least half the fuel used. If that was done for every vehicle then gasoline usage would fall by a similar amount / that has an impact. So instead of focusing on the perfect BEV (although still issues with how the electricity was generated and extra carbon cost building the batteries) let’s help with a transition that makes a difference and is easy to implement (as Toyota is showing with the RAV4).

I do think they help some. But I view them as the CFL of light bulbs. Better than incandescent but not nearly as good as LEDs. Lots of compromises and probably won't last as long.

 

[Kaiju]

Outside of the U.S., where 800v+ will be the standard soon, I don’t think it won’t matter to the consumers how much actual time is saved.

It’ll be a checkbox of what is offered, since the competition from China and Korea will offer them for cheap. And if a car doesn’t offer it, I think consumers will pass. Much like some version of adas will be a consumer requirement in the near future.

I have to admit you might be right, at least in so far as people wanting or expecting the bigger numbers on paper regardless of how well it actually works. The shitty part about it is that charge rates are still a moving target.

There are 1MW and 1.2MW chargers on paper now pulling 1000 amps+ at 1000V, however as far as I can tell that's well beyond what either CCS or NACS are capable of. It seems 500kW is the rational cieling for Europe and NA until a wholesale change rolls down through the charging standards. So where exactly does all this stop?

Since it was mentioned, that Hyundai Ioniq with its 700-volt system tops out at 240kW still and only gets about 120-160kW on 500V stations due to limits in its internal ability to step the voltage up. So despite it being an '800V architecture', it's actually worse on the vast majority of chargers presently in service. The question if this becomes commonplace is if comsumers will recognize it and guide their purchasing decisions to also include cars that don't have those sorts of limits, or if will just amount to increasing stigma on EVs for failing to live up to their on-paper numbers. I'm not betting on consumers making well-informed decisions there.

 

[icy1007]

There are millions of people without home charging, pretty much all renters. So they need public charging. And while I don't mind waiting a few extra minutes on a road trip, it would be annoying to have to wait to charge at a public charge near home.

Over 75% of EV drivers are able to charge at home and do charge at home for nearly all of their driving.

 

[icy1007]

Completely wrong, hybrids help a huge amount. Take the new Camry which is twice as efficient in city and 10-20% more efficient highway than the previous gen ICE. They have cut, with minimal cost to the consumer and no change in fueling habits, at least half the fuel used. If that was done for every vehicle then gasoline usage would fall by a similar amount / that has an impact. So instead of focusing on the perfect BEV (although still issues with how the electricity was generated and extra carbon cost building the batteries) let’s help with a transition that makes a difference and is easy to implement (as Toyota is showing with the RAV4).

ICE and Hybrids need to go away. The faster everyone moves to full electric, the better.

 

[mkhuffman]

Over 75% of EV drivers are able to charge at home and do charge at home for nearly all of their driving.

Do you have real data for that assertion, or is it just a gut feeling?

Early adopters, like us and most BEV drivers, likely do not represent what the average driver will be able to do. There are a lot of people who don't live in a house in the suburbs, with garage that can easily accommodate a EVSE.

I think it is reasonable to say those who are wealthily (which is everyone who can afford a R1) also don't represent the average driver, including the ability to install a EVSE at their home.

I was in an Uber a few weeks ago and asked the driver if he is able to go the entire workday on one charge (It was a Tesla 3). He does not have a way to charge at home, so he always charges at a Tesla SC station. He said he can go the entire day, but he has to charge daily. Anyway, the point is, he drives for a living, and he doesn't even charge at his home.

 

[icy1007]

Do you have real data for that assertion, or is it just a gut feeling?

Early adopters, like us and most BEV drivers, likely do not represent what the average driver will be able to do. There are a lot of people who don't live in a house in the suburbs, with garage that can easily accommodate a EVSE.

I think it is reasonable to say those who are wealthily (which is everyone who can afford a R1) also don't represent the average driver, including the ability to install a EVSE at their home.

I was in an Uber a few weeks ago and asked the driver if he is able to go the entire workday on one charge (It was a Tesla 3). He does not have a way to charge at home, so he always charges at a Tesla SC station. He said he can go the entire day, but he has to charge daily. Anyway, the point is, he drives for a living, and he doesn't even charge at his home.

The US Department of Energy shows that ~80% of EV charging happens at home. I was a bit low.


Source: US Department of Energy

 

[emoore]

The US Department of Energy shows that ~80% of EV charging happens at home. I was a bit low.


Source: US Department of Energy

That doesn’t mean that many people own homes. Just that EVs are typically bought by people most that own homes. 44.5 million households rent. That’s 35% of the population. Not insignificant. need more urban chargers.

 

[DuoRivian]

I do think they help some. But I view them as the CFL of light bulbs. Better than incandescent but not nearly as good as LEDs. Lots of compromises and probably won't last as long.

I think hybrids last as long or longer than BEVs from the right manufacturers!

 

[icy1007]

That doesn’t mean that many people own homes. Just that EVs are typically bought by people most that own homes. 44.5 million households rent. That’s 35% of the population. Not insignificant. need more urban chargers.

People who can’t charge at home probably shouldn’t buy an EV.

 

[emoore]

People who can’t charge at home probably shouldn’t buy an EV.

That makes it hard to get off of fossil fuels.

 

[icy1007]

That makes it hard to get off of fossil fuels.

Charging at home is one of the main benefits of driving an EV. Without it, EVs aren’t any more convenient than a gas car and likely less so since chargers aren’t as plentiful as gas stations.

 

[Longhorngary]

Hopefully when to company becomes actually profitable. If the company has its entire focus on leading edge tech. It may never get there. Rivian is trying to hold on until the R2 release. If R2 isn't the life raft all hope it is well then O would say never.

 

[mkhuffman]

Charging at home is one of the main benefits of driving an EV. Without it, EVs aren’t any more convenient than a gas car and likely less so since chargers aren’t as plentiful as gas stations.

One of the big reasons I love driving my BEV is the ability to refuel at home. If you can't do that, then there are other benefits, but they are not as significant.

And if you can't refuel at home, and do a reasonable cost/benefit analysis, it may be hard to justify driving a BEV. Especially when the politicals are driving up the cost of electricity, which fuels the very vehicles they want us to drive.

A highly efficient Tesla M3 could be much cheaper to operate than the equivalent ICEV, especially if your electricity cost is $0.11 per kWh. But a R1? Certainly it is more efficient than an equivalent vehicle, but compared to a Toyota Corolla? Not even close.

One of my favorite benefits is 800+ hp. In Sport mode, my truck is faster than 95% of the vehicles on the road. And it is the most fun thing ever. It is worth the price of admission!

 

[icy1007]

One of the big reasons I love driving my BEV is the ability to refuel at home. If you can't do that, then there are other benefits, but they are not as significant.

And if you can't refuel at home, and do a reasonable cost/benefit analysis, it may be hard to justify driving a BEV. Especially when the politicals are driving up the cost of electricity, which fuels the very vehicles they want us to drive.

A highly efficient Tesla M3 could be much cheaper to operate than the equivalent ICEV, especially if your electricity cost is $0.11 per kWh. But a R1? Certainly it is more efficient than an equivalent vehicle, but compared to a Toyota Corolla? Not even close.

One of my favorite benefits is 800+ hp. In Sport mode, my truck is faster than 95% of the vehicles on the road. And it is the most fun thing ever. It is worth the price of admission!

I pay $0.07/kWh. I have a Model 3 and it is VERY cheap to charge. I do not have an R1S yet, but am looking.

I did an extended demo drive a few weeks ago where they let me keep it for a weekend. Charging wasn't bad.

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