Out of Spec Towing with an Electric Truck - R1T vs Ford F-150 PowerBoost

[NorthernOak]

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[JeremyP]

Good to see this finally, it's about what I would expect and the aero drag from that trailer is about worst case. I don't usually tow over 65, although I can imagine it would be easy to in the Rivian! It shows that we really do need high powered, dependable charging stations (with pull through stalls!) every 50 miles to make cross country towing reasonable for the less adventurous. Come on RAN stations!

 

[NorthernOak]

Good to see this finally, it's about what I would expect and the aero drag from that trailer is about worst case.

I agree. I don't have a plan to ever pull a trailer that large or heavy at those kind of speeds or even potentially that distance. I do have a boat that I'll pull which is much lighter weight than this and obviously much more aerodynamic. EVs can absolutely be used for towing, they just have their limitations but as long as you can work within that window you'll do fine.

 

[moosetags]

I want to pull my 7,500# Airstream with my R1T. I can now see that it will cost more with the Rivian than my Duramax Silverado..

Brian

 

[NorthernOak]

I can now see that it will cost more with the Rivian than my Duramax Silverado..

Fully dependent on where you are charging at though. Could be cheaper if you're charging at home, a hotel, campground. But yes I agree in today's current state of the charging infrastructure and few companies like Electrify America being able to charge whatever they want, it can cost the same or more than an ICE.

 

[chicagoair]

Great video, we towed our 4500# 19 foot Airstream 390 miles today with our 14mpg Volvo and our stops closely mirrored the Electrify America stations.

At best we get 14mpg while towing combustion (30mpg without the trailer), so our usable is already about 150 miles, the Rivian shouldn’t be a major change.

This confirms our need to stick with the Max Pack, 21 inch road tires, set cruise at 65mph, and bring my patience for when we need to charge above the normal limits.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I want to pull my 7,500# Airstream with my R1T. I can now see that it will cost more with the Rivian than my Duramax Silverado..

Brian

I'm sure EA is going to fix this, but the Hummer is exceedingly cheap to charge in states that charge by the minute...

 

[crashmtb]

I want to pull my 7,500# Airstream with my R1T. I can now see that it will cost more with the Rivian than my Duramax Silverado..

Brian

for comparison’s sake
Here, diesel is sitting at about the equivalent of $8/gallon, with gas 10% cheaper.

DC fast charging is fairly uniformly $0.30/minute. fortunately in most of canada legislation prevents any person or company that is not an electricity utility from selling electrons directly, so charging can only be billed by time.

fuel costs in Florida(and indeed, from this video, Colorado) appear to be about half of what they are here.

While It might cost more in some places to charge rivian vs fuel a diesel pickup, the near total lack of maintenance costs on the rivian compared to a diesel truck surely offsets somewhat?

 

[COdogman]

Until there is more charging networks as competition, expect companies like EA to work people over in states where they are allowed to do so. The entire public charging experience is a complete mess, and I honestly don’t know how it gets fixed.

People who live in more “green” states may have legislatures that facilitate a better and more affordable network, while states who want to keep protecting the fossil fuel industry may remain extremely expensive to charge in so they can claim EVs aren’t better…

All I know is it cost me $81 to fill up my Tacoma the other day and I usually have to fill up twice during the month. Even if I have to use an overpriced EA charger twice a month at least I know I won’t be polluting the planet and riding the gas/ oil merry go round anymore.

 

[moosetags]

for comparison’s sake
Here, diesel is sitting at about the equivalent of $8/gallon, with gas 10% cheaper.

DC fast charging is fairly uniformly $0.30/minute. fortunately in most of canada legislation prevents any person or company that is not an electricity utility from selling electrons directly, so charging can only be billed by time.

fuel costs in Florida(and indeed, from this video, Colorado) appear to be about half of what they are here.

While It might cost more in some places to charge rivian vs fuel a diesel pickup, the near total lack of maintenance costs on the rivian compared to a diesel truck surely offsets somewhat?

While I am still fully on board with the EV Truck concept to tow the Airstream, I would have thought that the direct operating cost would have been better. Unlike the 7 mpg that the F150 got in the test, my Silverado Duramax gets a solid 13mpg pulling my 7,400# Airstream.

If my 2020 Chevrolet Duramax had been used in the same test, the fuel cost would be $19.36. The Rivian's "fuel" cost was $29.84. That's a whopping 50% higher cost to operate the Rivian pulling my Airstream.

I realize that the Rivian can be charged at a much lower cost at home. This is a non-issue as I am never at home when towing the Airstream.

Brian

 

[Scott]

My mental model has always been that charging at home made EV “fuel” cost roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the gas equivalent vehicle on a per mile basis, depending on local rates and prices. As gas prices have gone up that ratio has improved. With current fuel prices my ID4 costs 20% of my Subaru Forester to “fuel”.

However, I have always viewed DC fast charging as being equivalent cost to fueling up an ICE. This test shows that is roughly true.

If your use case for towing requires heavy use of DC fast chargers you won’t see fuel savings for that portion of your usage. However, if when you are not towing you charge at home mostly you will see a large reduction in your annual fuel cost.

In 6 months of EV ownership I have paid roughly 4 cents per mile driven of total costs for the miles I had to pay for. However I have also gotten many many free miles from plugging in at hotels and AirBnb’s while traveling. Find me a hotel that gives you a free nightly top off for your ICE

In general if you do looots of long range towing, EV ownership will likely be frustrating for you. On the other hand towing a boat locally to a local waterway will likely be extremely pleasant. This isn’t just from a cost perspective but from a general user experience.

 

[av8or]

It’s going to be interesting. I have a smaller trailer

,but drag is the big enemy. Currently I drive at 60mph to get 11mpg and 200 mile range. I do wonder what the Range of the R1T will be with my setup at 60.

 

[Scott]

It’s going to be interesting. I have a smaller trailer

,but drag is the big enemy. Currently I drive at 60mph to get 11mpg and 200 mile range. I do wonder what the Range of the R1T will be with my setup at 60.

You can probably roughly figure that out. What is your normal MPG at that speed on that route with your truck? A Rivian will likely see roughly the same reduction in efficiency from towing the same thing. The physics of added drag impact ICEs and EVs in the same manner. It won’t be perfect but it is likely ballpark accurate.

 

[av8or]

You can probably roughly figure that out. What is your normal MPG at that speed on that route with your truck? A Rivian will likely see roughly the same reduction in efficiency from towing the same thing. The physics of added drag impact ICEs and EVs in the same manner. It won’t be perfect but it is likely ballpark accurate.

I don’t think they are going to be that much different, except for total range. My current Jeeps range or mpg is cut in half when towing this trailer. 22 mpg without and 11 mpg with.
If I start everyday at a pretty full charge from the 50 amp service at an rv park, go 100ish miles and then a couple fast charge sessions to get me another 150ish miles to the next rv park with 50 amp service, should work for us. We only do 250-300 miles a day know so I’m thinking we can do this fairly easy.

 

[AdaminFlag]

While I am still fully on board with the EV Truck concept to tow the Airstream, I would have thought that the direct operating cost would have been better. Unlike the 7 mpg that the F150 got in the test, my Silverado Duramax gets a solid 13mpg pulling my 7,400# Airstream.

If my 2020 Chevrolet Duramax had been used in the same test, the fuel cost would be $19.36. The Rivian's "fuel" cost was $29.84. That's a whopping 50% higher cost to operate the Rivian pulling my Airstream.

I realize that the Rivian can be charged at a much lower cost at home. This is a non-issue as I am never at home when towing the Airstream.

Brian

I don’t think this is apples to apples just because the trailer weight is roughly the same as what Kyle was towing. You’re partially getting better mileage because you have a diesel, which is more energy dense than gas, and partially because your Airstream is much more aerodynamic than the box-end trailer that was used in this test. Similarly, I expect the efficiency of the Rivian to be significantly higher towing an Airsteam. I bet the total cost will be closer than you think. The bigger questions are “how fast do you want to drive?” (I’m usually towing closer to 60mph than 70 - which will result in roughly 25% less aerodynamic drag) and “how long do you want to spend charging?” If you’re doing 600 mile days and starting with an emptyish battery, it’s going to be painful. If you’re doing 250 mile days, and starting with a full battery because you overnighted with a 50-amp, it’s going to be a lot more pleasant. Also, if you are staying with hookups anyway, then that fill-up before you leave is effectively free.

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