EPA Test Data confirms Standard Battery and Standard+ are software locked versions of either Large or Max pack batteries

[Dark-Fx]

Also seems to confirm that the Max Pack batteries are using the 53G battery cells.

Infographics from here

I haven't gone through any of the remaining data in the testing document.

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[Rgrin]

For now. I suspect Standard and Standard+ will be replaced with LFP batteries s00n. My guess is that they introduced Standard+ because that is the absolute maximum capacity of LFP that can be stuffed into the volume (of the Max pack). They already use the LFP in the EDVs, but a *lot* of testing required before they roll LFP into commercial vehicles. Don't want any quality issues.

 

[Dark-Fx]

For now. I suspect Standard and Standard+ will be replaced with LFP batteries s00n. My guess is that they introduced Standard+ because that is the absolute maximum capacity of LFP that can be stuffed into the volume (of the Max pack). They already use the LFP in the EDVs, but a *lot* of testing required before they roll LFP into commercial vehicles. Don't want any quality issues.

I foresee Rivian separating LFP out based on model year.

 

[CharonPDX]

For now. I suspect Standard and Standard+ will be replaced with LFP batteries s00n. My guess is that they introduced Standard+ because that is the absolute maximum capacity of LFP that can be stuffed into the volume (of the Max pack). They already use the LFP in the EDVs, but a *lot* of testing required before they roll LFP into commercial vehicles. Don't want any quality issues.

Max Pack is already known to be the same physical size as Large, just with the "53G" cells instead of the "50G".

Standard+ is just the Max pack cells in the "Standard form factor" (same % SW lock, apparently.)

This is surprising to me, as I would have thought Standard/Standard+ would have just been the 50G/53G cells with only 7 modules instead of 9, since the range of Standard is 7/9th the range of Large, and the range of Standard+ is 7/9th the range of Max.

Since the whole point of the Standard packs was to theoretically save money, the rather large discount for buying them (especially S+!) is wild.

Standard is a $9,000 discount over Large, for what we now know is the same pack. While Standard+ is a $16,0000 discount over Max! (Even bigger discounts if you qualify for the tax credit, since Large and Max don't qualify.)

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

so if Performance and + battery are both software locked, has there been any indication that Rivian is going to make that upgradeable in the future?

That would be an easy way to get the $3,750 tax incentive while still getting the capability. I'd certainly be more likely to consider buying a DM/Standard R1S if I knew that I could upgrade to Performance and Large at a later date for the same price. This would make even more sense if Rivian is still paying the cost for the materials.

 

[Rgrin]

My guess: they ship Standard/Standard+ at a significant loss for now, but it positions them in the market. Later this year they will actually (silently, or maybe not) start shipping with LFP on Standard/Standard+, in order to get to the and of year gross-margin-neutral goal.

You won't be able to tell by vehicle weight. LFP has lower specific energy, so the battery size/weight will probably be roughly the same as Large/Max.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

My guess: they ship Standard/Standard+ at a significant loss for now, but it positions them in the market. Later this year they will actually (silently, or maybe not) start shipping with LFP on Standard/Standard+, in order to get to the and of year gross-margin-neutral goal.

You won't be able to tell by vehicle weight. LFP has lower specific energy, so the battery size/weight will probably be roughly the same as Large/Max.

I'd actually be more receptive to Standard if it was LFP than the current chemistry, because for those of us in warmer climates you have the full battery to use instead of the 80% that most use for non-LFP. 325*.80=260, so assuming you follow best practice you're really at about 260 miles or so real world with the Large pack anyways. The only outlier would be a specific drive where you're going 300-325 miles.

 

[Kidentist]

So to clarify.... since I ordered the Standard +, that would be a "theoretical" win for me on the basis of the quality of the battery??

 

[DuoRivians]

You could probably charge these to 100% then, no?

 

[jjswan33]

You could probably charge these to 100% then, no?

Yep and charge it to 100% probably ~40-45 min on DCFC.

 

[usofrob]

It's interesting that there is no mention of quad (or tri) in the entire document. Maybe because the Quads have already been through EPA in a separate document? They also don't have any results from max packs.

 

[Riptide]

Wen jailbreak!?

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Doesn't surprise me they didn't remove modules. Removing modules would affect weight, thermals, and would probably cost them more.

No mention of quad or tri I'm guessing because those won't be available with standard or SP packs.

They did this to get it to market quicker and there will be a switch over to LFP probably by their initial timeline for releasing these which I believe was summer 2024. It's also possible they wait until MY switchover too.

Will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[DuoRivian]

Doesn't surprise me they didn't remove modules. Removing modules would affect weight, thermals, and would probably cost them more.

No mention of quad or tri I'm guessing because those won't be available with standard or SP packs.

They did this to get it to market quicker and there will be a switch over to LFP probably by their initial timeline for releasing these which I believe was summer 2024. It's also possible they wait until MY switchover too.

Will be interesting to see what they do.

Exactly, the switch to LFP is probably part of the shutdown switchover and was mentioned last year that smaller battery packs would come become available mid 2024. They brought the current standard pack in to advertise a cheaper price (although they lose more since it is the original battery) but worth it to keep sales going. Agree with you that making them post refit 2025 models makes sense.

 

[Riviot]

You could probably charge these to 100% then, no?

Did we figure out where the battery is SW locked? i.e. what 100% standard/standard+ corresponds to on large/max? I remember we did maths, but not where we landed.

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