R2 range based on ABRP (implied highway ranges)

[djplong]

It's pretty variable in my Model 3. 65mph, steady, mild/warm - I burn ~240 Wh/mi. Drafting a bus or semi? I can get that down under 200 (<225 easily). Driving lazily around local/secondary roads is 160-180. In the rain on the highway? That's more like 280-310. And I've noticed, cruise control gives a boost. When driving manually you have a lot of tiny adjustments that have you going slower/faster by 5mph or so. Cruise nails it better, keeping it steadier and, as a result, more efficient.

Full disclosure - this is a 2018 Model 3 with 144K miles on it.

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[vmi9d3]

other than most of us here don't have an R2 yet, and won't for a while?

I misunderstood the thread, I didn't note it was a hypothetical discussion.
With that, why do we care about 3rd party data about the vehicle? I understand that ABRP/Plugshare/Google Maps/Apple Maps/etc can be used for planning but once we have the vehicle I understand Rivian Nav to be very good, one reason why I am choosing Rivian over my EV6, why not use it?

 

[sparked]

I misunderstood the thread, I didn't note it was a hypothetical discussion.
With that, why do we care about 3rd party data about the vehicle? I understand that ABRP/Plugshare/Google Maps/Apple Maps/etc can be used for planning but once we have the vehicle I understand Rivian Nav to be very good, one reason why I am choosing Rivian over my EV6, why not use it?

Rivian owns ABRP...

 

[DarylDC]

ABRP now has Rivian R2 specs loaded, and the implied highway ranges are interesting:

21” R2
65 mph: ~300 miles
70 mph: ~255 miles
75 mph: ~225 miles

20” R2
65 mph: ~270 miles
70 mph: ~225 miles
75 mph: ~205 miles

R2 appears to be speed-sensitive, and the 21” setup may have ~25 miles more range than the 20” setup at highway speeds

So at 75 mph using 70% of battery will net usable range of 158 miles (21”) vs 143 miles (20”)

The delta of only 15 miles is pretty insignificant, so in my view the 20” option is the clear winner here.

At what outside temperatures were the results achieved? And should higher or lower results be expected on either side of the temperature spectrum?

 

[ksurfier]

At what outside temperatures were the results achieved? And should higher or lower results be expected on either side of the temperature spectrum?

You’d have to ask ABRP/Rivian about their default vs specific assumptions…but I did just add a cross-country trip LAX-JFK, it suggest 100% range at 65 mph is 288 miles.

 

[AmpedToGo]

For a Performance R2 w/21" Pirellis, ABRP shows reference consumption of 312 Wh/mile or 3.2 miles/kWh.

I looked at a route in ABRP from Seattle to N San Diego taking I5. That route should average ~65-75 mph but without as much elevation change as LAX to JFK. ABRP's routing covered 1,267 miles and used 378 kWh, so averaging 3.35 miles/kWh. That seems optimistic to me for highway driving, but we don't yet have our R2. I'd be thrilled with that.

 

[VSG]

ABRP has always been very good at its predictions for my R1T. And it provides a lot of variables to tweak the predictions for your preferred driving style. If anything, I have found the ABRP defaults to be a little pessimistic, which is what you want it to be, so that you always end a trip segment with a higher battery state of charge than predicted.

I don't think that ABRP contains super secret proprietary Rivian data - It's always been accurate for my R1T even before Rivian bought the company. I think ABRP scales the mileage as a function of velocity using just a few publicly-available reference values per vehicle model (ref. consumption + Cd + EPA data?) - this is how it can be accurate for a wide variety of vehicles. I'm sure there's also some adjustment to these public reference values based on customer's live data, but even in the early days of Rivian when there were few R1T on the road it gave me very accurate predictions, which indicates to me their methodology is pretty robust and doesn't depend on a lot of "real world" data.

 

[MrHockey17]

ABRP now has Rivian R2 specs loaded, and the implied highway ranges are interesting:

The following suggest R2 can travel ~2.6 hours between chargers (44.5 hours / 17 stops), it also suggests the average range between stops is 170 miles. And most of all it confirms a maximum range at 65 mph of 259 miles (90% of 288 miles). Unfortunately it also means range at 75 mph is only ~190 miles (90% of 216 miles).

Speed (mph)​	90% | 100 %	% EPA (330)
61​	288 | 320	97
63​	275 | 305	92
65​	260 | 288	87
68​	240 | 266	81
73​	205 | 227	69
75​	190 | 216	65

21" R2 (LAX to JFK)
~50 hrs total - 64.8 MPH: 288 miles (3.27 MPK; ABRP trip planner)
70 mph adjusted: 248 miles (2.8 MPK)
75 mph adjusted: 216 miles (2.45 MPK)
--

*55 mph from ABRP (10 stops): 415 miles (4.7 MPK)
*46 mph from ABRP (9 stops): 487 miles (5.5 MPK)

21” R2 (short 350 mile trip)
65 mph: ~300 miles
70 mph: ~255 miles
75 mph: ~225 miles

20” R2
65 mph: ~270 miles
70 mph: ~225 miles
75 mph: ~205 miles

R2 appears to be speed-sensitive, and the 21” setup may have ~25 miles more range than the 20” setup at highway speeds

So at 75 mph using 70% of battery will net usable range of 150 - 158 miles (21”) vs ~140 miles (20”)

The delta of only 10-15 miles is pretty insignificant, so in my view the 20” option is the clear winner here.

Added a second longer example trip for Performance R2:
LAX to JFK (17 stops):
Total trip time: 50 hours
Time charging: 5.5 hours
Total miles: 2,882
Total kWh: 881
Roundtrip cost: ~$900 (or ~$1200 at 75 mph)
Average driving speed: 64.8 MPH (2882 mi/44.5 hrs)
Efficiency: 3.27 MPK (2882/881)
Implied range at average speed of ~65 MPH: 288 miles (3.27 MPK * 88 kWh)

Based on ABRP, range vs speed:

MPH	MPK	RANGE
60	3.7	329
62	3.5	308
64.8	3.2	282
66	3.1	272
68	2.9	256
70	2.8	242
72	2.6	232
74	2.5	220
76	2.4	209
78	2.3	198

Just for fun I ran the same trip with the R1S DM Standard:
LAX to JFK (22 stops):
Total trip time: 60 hours
Time charging: 14.20 hours!!!!!!!!
Total miles: 2,879
Total kWh: 1228
Roundtrip cost: ~$900 (or ~$1200 at 75 mph)
Average driving speed: 64.7 MPH (2879 mi/44.5 hrs)
Efficiency: 2.34 MPK (2879/1228)
Implied range at average speed of ~65 MPH: 232 miles (2.34 MPK * 99 kWh)

A Dual Motor Max pack ends up being about the same total trip time as the R2...with efficiency of 2.56 MPK at 65 mph.

Just heads up that I don’t believe the R2 is capable of 500 miles of range at 40 mph…that would imply 5.7 MPK…my best guess is it might be 4.0 to 4.5 MPK at 40 mph…so definitely under 400 miles of range…

Doesn’t Rivian own ABRP?

 

[Qamera]

This matches the curve posted by another person recently (can't find his post) - which also shows 330 miles at 60 mph on 21", and 400 miles at 50 mph. I'm guessing it falls apart somewhere between 60 and 50 mph but would be very interested to see if the 400@50 is doable because that would be great for two-lane driving in the middle of nowhere, national parks, etc.

 

[Qamera]

Slightly off topic but does ABRP show the most efficient speed to drive at, that will get me there fastest? I.e. combining speed with charging time with number of charging stops, accounting for extra time required to set up each charge (typically 5~10 minutes from the highway before and after)

 

[VandalSibs]

Doesn’t Rivian own ABRP?

They do, but they've been pretty hands-off in terms of controlling the app/site from most appearances. There have been a few more overt additions (Rivian Account login option, Rivian's charger score/grades), but the site itself is still pretty EV-agnostic from my testing.

 

[VSG]

I think the first several thousand of these to ship with LIDAR will be for generating data for developing their full autonomy models. And I suspect once they learn how large and complex those models are, they'll need additional compute resources in the vehicle to take advantage of them.

Not just the "first several thousand" - that's what ALL of them are for, for the next several years. As stated by Rivian.

That's why they're putting in the RAP chips at the same time as the lidar. Four times the processing power of the current system. And the current chip is already as powerful as what Tesla uses to run their models. So no, I don't think compute resources are going to be a problem for a while.

 

[MrHockey17]

They do, but they've been pretty hands-off in terms of controlling the app/site from most appearances. There have been a few more overt additions (Rivian Account login option, Rivian's charger score/grades), but the site itself is still pretty EV-agnostic from my testing.

Fair enough. I was just curious.

 

[VSG]

Slightly off topic but does ABRP show the most efficient speed to drive at, that will get me there fastest? I.e. combining speed with charging time with number of charging stops, accounting for extra time required to set up each charge (typically 5~10 minutes from the highway before and after)

Try it yourself - it's free and doesn't require an account or an app. You can get your own answers quicker that way.

Yes, ABRP lets you set routing parameters to tilt its optimized route towards either fastest arrival or least # of charging stops, along with your preference for speeding etc. However for any optimization problem like this there are many variables at every point along the way, and many constraints at every point along the way. There is no answer that is correct for everyone.

 

[Qamera]

Thanks. I use ABRP, and it has an option called 'fastest,' but you have to set your own max speed in settings. I'm looking for the optimal speed to drive at that will get me to my destination as quickly as possible.

(I am not familiar with Rivian's nav component, but look forward to it! I currently have an ID4 and have found it much easier to just plan my next stop while charging at the current stop, because ABRP does not offer dynamic in-trip data for my EV.)

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