Tesla FSD now at $12,000???

[MIG]

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a38710319/elon-musk-tesla-fsd-price-hike/

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[Attesan997]

I'm not sure anything will change once it hit $10k. Those who would buy it will continue to do so. What's 20%. It's just a great way to boost cash flow without having expend any resources. If I could refund it at this point and get $7k back I would.

 

[Trekkie]

I view FSD as the ADM of the dealer world. I subscribed for a month for my 2200 mile road trip, the only thing it did was terrify the passengers 8-10 times an hour by trying to lane change into semi's. Never got the 'beta' this was just what the car has if you aren't timid enough to be a 'safe' driver.

It actually gave me dings for 'following too close' yet when it dinged me was when it was in control and my follow distance was set to 5. two up from the max.

Just not a fan of it, and its made me like my car less honestly

 

[Monkey]

The thing with Tesla FSD is fewer than 3% of all Tesla vehicles on the road have been given access to the current beta. If you don't have beta access, then all you get with it is the Enhanced Autopilot functionality, which is not great. As much as I want to say that EAP is terrible, it has amazing moments... It is also better than anything from any other automaker at this time and nowhere near as functional as full FSD. And yet, I don't trust it enough to use it for anything. I have FSD purchased for my Model Y -- $4000 at the time I ordered, so can't complain about that. I would not pay the $10K now $12K for it on a new car. It's basically, show me it working 100% to the level I would want it to work before I use it, then we'll talk about me buying/subscribing.

When I say Tesla AP is better than what other automakers have, I have been able to test drive the latest GM SuperCruise and got to see Ford's BlueCruise in action from the passenger seat. They both take a much different, brute force approach than what Tesla is doing. They work on pre-mapped roads they have in their database and then are nothing more than glorified adaptive cruise control with late-keeping and lane change assist. Have not had the chance to see or test Rivian's Driver+ yet.

I have beta access to FSD. Just got it with the last round of invites. Have not played with it much, but the little I have is quite impressive. There is a section of road by my house where the pavement kinda melds into dirt for about a 100 foot stretch and no lines visible. The car routinely alerts us when driving normal that evasive steering was applied or some weird notice when we drive over that spot, but no actual correction is ever felt by me or my wife when driving. It dings our safety score too. I've had the car drive over it twice in FSD mode now... And no trouble at all either time. Hmmm.....

As advanced as the FSD system is and as impressive as it is, I think we're still several years away from actually letting a car chauffeur me across town.

 

[ironpig]

I had a friend who ordered a new Tesla 2 years ago and paid the $10k for the "self driving" - I was so bummed I didn't get to him before he paid it so I could have convinced him not to buy in to the scam.

how they can continue to sell something that doesn't work and isn't legal for $10-12k a car is still shocking to me.

 

[Dbeglor]

I had a friend who ordered a new Tesla 2 years ago and paid the $10k for the "self driving" - I was so bummed I didn't get to him before he paid it so I could have convinced him not to buy in to the scam.

how they can continue to sell something that doesn't work and isn't legal for $10-12k a car is still shocking to me.

There's nothing stopping selling anything to anyone who is a willing buyer. It's clear that it represents features that are being developed with no specific timeline for them becoming available. It's not the first or the last product or service which created buyer's remorse. I've seen some claim in forums that they believe it will cost upwards of $100k (delusional) once fully operational, so they see it as almost like an "investment" to buy it for $10k, or whatever. So, I think for many it's not about what it is today, they are buying into the fact that they will deliver on it and it will cost a lot more to buy later (FOMO mindset). About 20% of owners have taken them up on that offer to date, according to them. That % could be in decline as the price goes up and the product fails to deliver on expectations, but at the same time the price increases seem to suggest the opposite, that demand is increasing.

From an accounting perspective, they don't recognize that revenue in full immediately though. They recognize it in chunks as they add features, based on their own internal accounting for what percentage of the overall product that feature represents.

 

[ironpig]

There's nothing stopping selling anything to anyone who is a willing buyer. It's clear that it represents features that are being developed with no specific timeline for them becoming available. It's not the first or the last product or service which created buyer's remorse. I've seen some claim in forums that they believe it will cost upwards of $100k (delusional) once fully operational, so they see it as almost like an "investment" to buy it for $10k, or whatever. So, I think for many it's not about what it is today, they are buying into the fact that they will deliver on it and it will cost a lot more to buy later (FOMO mindset). About 20% of owners have taken them up on that offer to date, according to them. That % could be in decline as the price goes up and the product fails to deliver on expectations, but at the same time the price increases seem to suggest the opposite, that demand is increasing.

From an accounting perspective, they don't recognize that revenue in full immediately though. They recognize it in chunks as they add features, based on their own internal accounting for what percentage of the overall product that feature represents.

I’m not a Tesla fan or someone who bashes them. I’ve been driving one since 2014. But I am tired of Tesla and their fans who consistently perpetuate lies and potential frauds that not only their own customers at risk but also anyone driving near someone driving a Tesla in “FSD” mode.

Its not debatable that they are selling something called “full self driving” that may never be legal and or functional over the lifetime of the car. It’s just simply wrong and it puts everyone else at risk when Tesla owners enable it.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

I got FSD on my Model S when they had the $2000 firesale ... Ended up paying $1500 as I had a $500 referral credit. Even at that price it is still too much and really of no benefit. EAP is fine for what it does. No matter what I do I'm still at a 94 "Safety Score" and get dinged for following too closely (presumably there's a way to not do this in So Cal traffic??) or braking or turning too hard. FSD is a complete scam and I feel bad for the suckers that actually shelled out $10K for it, no way is it now "worth" $12K. If I could, I'd ask for my money back if they'd give it. I'm still shocked that there hasn't been some sort of class action lawsuit (not that one would benefit anyone else other than the lawyers!). My Model S is approaching 4 years in April and will be out of bumper-to-bumper warranty and am debating if I should spring for an extended warranty or sell it. At least I get free super charging and free "premium connectivity"!!!

 

[Forager]

More folks need to learn about Comma.ai and Open Pilot. Similar to Tesla Autopilot, but available to add to most cars with ACC and LKA, and totally open source. They are chasing autonomous driving and have just as good a chance as Tesla. And it’s only $2300…

 

[Billyk24]

Some Tesla vehicles have had Two different owners pay for fsd! Cash cow fir the company. The CEO stated in 2018 "soon a Model S will self drive itself across the country".

 

[gd_r1t]

Why not, I'll rant on this. I paid $8k for FSD so might as well get something of value out of it (sarcasm as foreshadowing for what's to come).

Positives
It's cool to have a front row seat for a major technological advancement in humankind.

Even for all the faults, of which there are many particularly in how it's marketed... it's incredibly impressive what Tesla has achieved to-date and the direction they're going in. I'm bullish that Tesla will eventually get there and the technology will have a huge positive impact on the world.

Regular (free) Auto-pilot is a fantastic feature and value. It makes road trips incredibly relaxing and enjoyable. I think Tesla creates a ton of positive consumer surplus for giving that away as free and if anything they could probably charge a modest amount for it as an upgrade if they wanted to.

Reality check
In actuality though, spending $8k on FSD has so far turned out to be a giant waste of money.

The single most useful feature from FSD I actually use is a little chime when traffic lights turn green. The ironic thing about that feature is that it has nothing to do with the car driving itself -- it's literally a reminder to tell the human driver to go And it's completely unrelated to the new FSD beta.

Speaking of the "beta program", it's dangerous AF to use in the city (DC). It really go to any destination in the city without requiring intervention to avoid a serious accident. People pay lots of money to take what's already statistically the most dangerous daily activity you can do (driving a car) and make it way more dangerous. At this point today, FSD feels like a nonstarter for city driving.

On the highway, I've absolutely loved auto-pilot. But the free version is more than great, and in fact paying $8k removed the radar from my car's use, put on the Vision-only stack and caused phantom breaking up the wazoo for 2 months, again causing lots of seriously dangerous situations, until they pushed an OTA update, which I give credit for that for sure.

Outside of auto-steering / city street driving, most other features you pay for I have rarely or never used -- Smart Summon, auto-park, taking on/off ramps on the highway, etc. These aren't value-add for me personally.

I wouldn't pay even $1k for it if I could do it all over again today, much less $12k. To me, it's felt like misleading false marketing at best, and a scam at worst. In some ways it's the biggest Kickstarter project in history.

Conclusion
I'm a huge fan of Tesla and what they're doing. I hate when misinformation are weaponized as FUD against them. I fully support the intent of Elon and the Tesla team.

However, the price is absolutely not compelling for what FSD is today, purely from a consumer's perspective, at least in my personal opinion.

That said, Tesla has gone through so many rounds of price increases, they no doubt have perfectly mapped out consumer willingness to pay on this and know exactly what they're doing by raising the price to $12k, so more power to them.

 

[jtshaw]

I view FSD as the ADM of the dealer world. I subscribed for a month for my 2200 mile road trip, the only thing it did was terrify the passengers 8-10 times an hour by trying to lane change into semi's. Never got the 'beta' this was just what the car has if you aren't timid enough to be a 'safe' driver.

It actually gave me dings for 'following too close' yet when it dinged me was when it was in control and my follow distance was set to 5. two up from the max.

Just not a fan of it, and its made me like my car less honestly

Are you in the FSD Beta? I’ve had it for a while and it’s pretty scary on Seattle city streets. The visualizations are pretty cool though

 

[Zoidz]

Some Tesla vehicles have had Two different owners pay for fsd! Cash cow fir the company. The CEO stated in 2018 "soon a Model S will self drive itself across the country".

In 1939, Norman Bel Geddes "Futurama" predicted FSD by 1960.
In the 1950s, RCA Labs "perfected" autonomous driving that would be commercialized by 1975.
In 1966, Ohio State developed a system that was to go commercial by 1981.
In 1998, Arizona expected to have I-10 express lanes for fully autonomous vehicles by 2018.
And as you quoted:
In 2018, soon a Model S will drive itself across the country.

FSD is always just a few years away.....

 

[Tim-in-CA]

In 1939, Norman Bel Geddes "Futurama" predicted FSD by 1960.
In the 1950s, RCA Labs "perfected" autonomous driving that would be commercialized by 1975.
In 1966, Ohio State developed a system that was to go commercial by 1981.
In 1998, Arizona expected to have I-10 express lanes for fully autonomous vehicles by 2018.
And as you quoted:
In 2018, soon a Model S will drive itself across the country.

FSD is always just a few years away.....

More easily explained ?:

 

[RideAlong]

caveat emptor

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