2024 Quad Motor vs. 2026 Dual

[BigSkies]

I have a Gen 1 quad, and haven't driven a Gen 2 or dual motor variant.

I'm happy with what I have, and have no interest in trading. The electric door locks on the Gen 2 are enough to keep me away from those. But I realize most people don't care about that.

If I were in the market again today, I'd probably be looking at a dual motor variant though.

Figure out what's important to you. Is the added power from the quad THAT important to you? If so, get a quad. I'd personally rather have the efficiency bump of the dual motor. That makes a bigger difference for longer trips.

While the quad power is cool, it's not a huge practical benefit. I'd rather have the efficiency boost. But it's not a big enough consideration I'd trade vehicles for it.

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[2kwik4u]

I will start by clarifying that you, or anyone with the dual standard, is still driving an incredible vehicle. Reviewers on YouTube and others have prepared lengthy comparisons that I can't easily summarize in few sentences, but it comes down to a few factors. The LFP chemistry in general has better charge curves, better cold weather performance, and can take more abuse or bad charging behavior like going to 100% or above 80% frequently. As reported, for long road trips, the LFP results in slightly better/quicker travel times than the dual large; this is counterintuitive, given that the large has more total range. Of course, dual large will give you more single charge range when both start at 100%, but it's the recharge cycle where the NMC throttles down a lot above 80% and LFPs go through 80-100% faster, getting you on the road faster. The thinking on the max is that you just buy enough total capacity that even when using 80% of it, you still have gobs of range.
BTW, I have the large (NMC) battery too, and I love my R1T like no other vehicle, but I'd take a max battery if given the choice of the three on a quad. Buying new today, I'd probably get the dual standard because it's the best deal/value and has plenty of HP/range for most of us.

Interesting.

I'm probably out of date, but I was comparing some charging curves awhile back, and it appeared that the large had a better curve than the max. Although that was an absolute not a relative comparison. That is to say it was a 0-100% run, so the kWh per % weren't the same. Perhaps that's a gap in my understanding.

I've road tripped quite a bit in my dual/large setup, and I rarely charge over 80% on road trips. I'll top up to 100% at the house and leave. That makes the first leg the longest (of which I have one leg that was 289mi), and then from there typically only charge enough to get about 150-170mi or range and move on to the next charger. Perhaps the slightly lower overall travel time is from being able to cut out a charge or two on a longer trip? Never really done the math on that to see if it would save much time. I've found that on a 9hr road trip with my ICE vehicle it becomes about 10.5hr in the Rivian. So charging adds around 18% to the time. Which is honestly, for me, not that bad.

Can you elaborate on the cold weather performance part? What's different/better there? I'm in Buffalo, so we spend a good portion of our year below freezing (although rarely below zero degrees F), and I don't see a meaningful drop in range due to the cold. Even on road trips, the first leg might be 10-15mi shorter, but on a 500mi day, that's somewhat "in the noise" on impact to the whole day.

 

[ENVErider]

Your info may still be current. I think I also heard the max battery backs off the most at top of charge, thermal build-up, I think, but when you have the max, very few drivers even need to go above 80%. As I understand it, the cold weather affects capacity in a few ways. Unfortunately, the battery pack losses and cabin heating losses are often used interchangeably, something I'm guilty of. And there's the fact that all other things equal, the Gen2s give better range than Gen1 in the cold due to the resistive heater to heat pump heater upgrade. That roughly trippled the heating efficiency for both the battery pack and the cabin heating. (The packs will have more heating drain to maintain minimums and in pre-conditioning before charging events, else charging rates (kW) are low. I don't doubt that you are getting good performance; it could be OTA updates, and it could be that Gen2 boost. I hear the OTA updates have improved the charge curves for all packs over the years. There's lots of content out there on this topic and I wish I could recall where I originally went, but Out Of Spec YouTube channel has several videos on this topic. Recurrent seems to offer fairly brand-agnostic info... https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss
happy researching, if you find something particularly robust and informative, I'd love a link to the content.

 

[imhuntsm]

Thanks, all. A bunch of good info on here. And now I am still completely torn on which way to go. Perhaps waiting for a used Gen2 R1S may be a good option as some of you have mentioned. I have the luxury of time to keep an eye out and pull the trigger when it feels right

 

[Goose]

How is the Gen 1 PAAK working these days? I know only Gen 2 will get the NFC Apple phone/watch key thing.

I'm actually also debating on trading in my 2024 Toyota Sequoia for a 2024 Quad R1T at CarMax (found the exact build I've longed for the last several years). Pretty much my only real concerns are the lock/unlocking situation, air suspension longevity, and being able to tow my boat to the beach (151 miles one way). The air suspension thing can be kinda fixed by an extended warranty, then trading in for a Gen 4ish when the time comes.

 

[2kwik4u]

How is the Gen 1 PAAK working these days? I know only Gen 2 will get the NFC Apple phone/watch key thing.

For me.....it doesn't. I abandoned PaaK a few months ago. I blocked the "Nearby Devices" permission for the Rivian app on my phone, and just deal with the "Need permissions updated" warning in the app that never goes away. PaaK never worked reliably, locked me out multiple times in less than stellar circumstances due to security token lapsing without warning, AND would bork the connection between my phone and my Garmin watch every other day. The "no key fob" juice wasn't worth the "I'm going to randomly get locked out of the truck in the rain" squeeze.

I carry the fob.....which still doesn't work for shit, and it wildly inconsistent, but at least my watch stays connected my phone now, so there's that. Like, seriously, the wifes Nissan Rogue works from 100yds away instantly and with wild consistency. My luxury pickup can often not unlock itself when I'm standing next to it repeated pressing the button. To say it's wildly frustrating would be the biggest understatement possible.

Physical access is a complete shit show of a poorly designed and awfully executed system, IMO.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The 2026 NACS connector was important enough to me to wait.

The reverse is why I cancelled my gen2 quad motor. I'll suck it up for an R2 though, since I'm not going to be doing road trips in it most likely. (But also, GM is starting to make an L2 adapter that's compatible with J1772 handles that also have CCS on them (GM's powershift charger), so it won't be an issue for me by the time those adapters make it to market.)

 

[jrmbadger]

For me.....it doesn't. I abandoned PaaK a few months ago. I blocked the "Nearby Devices" permission for the Rivian app on my phone, and just deal with the "Need permissions updated" warning in the app that never goes away. PaaK never worked reliably, locked me out multiple times in less than stellar circumstances due to security token lapsing without warning, AND would bork the connection between my phone and my Garmin watch every other day. The "no key fob" juice wasn't worth the "I'm going to randomly get locked out of the truck in the rain" squeeze.

I carry the fob.....which still doesn't work for shit, and it wildly inconsistent, but at least my watch stays connected my phone now, so there's that. Like, seriously, the wifes Nissan Rogue works from 100yds away instantly and with wild consistency. My luxury pickup can often not unlock itself when I'm standing next to it repeated pressing the button. To say it's wildly frustrating would be the biggest understatement possible.

Physical access is a complete shit show of a poorly designed and awfully executed system, IMO.

This is one of those technologies that has a surprising amount of variation. PaaK works 99% of the time for me.

I wonder if one (or more) of your proximity sensors is not functioning? I know the R1S has 4 and you should be able to see them under My Devices in Apple's Bluetooth Settings. They show up as "Rivian Sensor 1" and so on. They don't always appear for me, but I know I've seen 1-4 at various times.

The other thought is phone location. I put my phone in my front jeans pocket on top of my wallet. I often wonder if people put their phones in their back pockets and maybe that causes issues (human beings are giant bags of water and water is really good at blocking wireless signals.).

 

[VandalSibs]

How is the Gen 1 PAAK working these days? I know only Gen 2 will get the NFC Apple phone/watch key thing.

I'm actually also debating on trading in my 2024 Toyota Sequoia for a 2024 Quad R1T at CarMax (found the exact build I've longed for the last several years). Pretty much my only real concerns are the lock/unlocking situation, air suspension longevity, and being able to tow my boat to the beach (151 miles one way). The air suspension thing can be kinda fixed by an extended warranty, then trading in for a Gen 4ish when the time comes.

Things are great with my Gen1 R1T. That being said, I think that PaaK is highly dependent on what phone you have, because Bluetooth antenna(s) may be arranged differently. I would have issues with a Pixel 6 and my truck (worked about 85% of the time), but now I have a Pixel 9a and I've not had a problem since the switch.

 

[imhuntsm]

Can you explain the PAAK issue? Not familiar with that.

 

[Ilovejunebugs]

If there is another thread that covers this, please direct me that way.

I am looking to get into a Rivian R1S and am between buying a used quad motor or leasing a new dual motor. Would be paying cash if I buy used, and with the lease I would likely buy at lease end in cash. I would rather not shell out $100k right now and there continue to be some lease deals with a $6500 credit if I went the leasing route.

From what I have read, the ride quality, cameras and operating system of the 2024 aren't as good as the 2026. This would be my first Rivian, am I going to notice those things?

Let me know all your thoughts.

Things are great with my Gen1 R1T. That being said, I think that PaaK is highly dependent on what phone you have, because Bluetooth antenna(s) may be arranged differently. I would have issues with a Pixel 6 and my truck (worked about 85% of the time), but now I have a Pixel 9a and I've not had a problem since the switch.

If you haven't been in a Gen 2, you won't notice the difference between the cameras and ride quality; I haven't been in one so I can't speak to those (though others here have and have provided good information). I am very happy with my Gen 1 2022 LE QM R1T. I did purchase it pre-owned and Rivian has treated me very well and taken care of all service issues. After owning the quad I'm not sure I'd be happy with a dual...but I haven't driven one to say that for sure.
Paak worked horribly when I had a google pixel 8 phone; last year I switched to a Samsung Galaxy S25 and it has worked fine ever since.

 

[2kwik4u]

This is one of those technologies that has a surprising amount of variation. PaaK works 99% of the time for me.

I wonder if one (or more) of your proximity sensors is not functioning? I know the R1S has 4 and you should be able to see them under My Devices in Apple's Bluetooth Settings. They show up as "Rivian Sensor 1" and so on. They don't always appear for me, but I know I've seen 1-4 at various times.

The other thought is phone location. I put my phone in my front jeans pocket on top of my wallet. I often wonder if people put their phones in their back pockets and maybe that causes issues (human beings are giant bags of water and water is really good at blocking wireless signals.).

Rivian has had the truck in for service twice, and told me "Everything on the truck is working as intended". Basically told me my phone was too old and that a new phone would likely have better results. I call BS because the fob doesn't work for crap either.

Usually.......I think.....The poor performance comes when the truck is asleep and I walk up to it. The truck has to boot up, then boot up the BT module, then pair, then accept a command. It seems I can usually walk to the truck faster than that can happen.

I know PaaK and BT fobs are an additional security layer. I know my wife's Nissan Rogue is susceptible to cloning attacks and my Rivian isn't.....but cheese and rice hers just always works. Never doesn't work.

 

[Great Gatsby]

How is the Gen 1 PAAK working these days? I know only Gen 2 will get the NFC Apple phone/watch key thing.

I'm actually also debating on trading in my 2024 Toyota Sequoia for a 2024 Quad R1T at CarMax (found the exact build I've longed for the last several years). Pretty much my only real concerns are the lock/unlocking situation, air suspension longevity, and being able to tow my boat to the beach (151 miles one way). The air suspension thing can be kinda fixed by an extended warranty, then trading in for a Gen 4ish when the time comes.

Gen 1 owner. Seems like YMMV as others have said, but PaaK has worked for me 100% of the time. Occasionally it'll be like a second delay of me walking up to it, but always opens and gets going. Same cannot be said for the Kia EV9 I used to own or the Mach-E my wife owns currently where sometimes it takes getting the phone out and opening the app to get it to open. I do carry a keycard as backup but have never had to use it and it's a nice option to have for valets.

I never towed, so can't speak to that, but the suspension is known for having half-shaft issues, leaking dampers or failing altogether (the last part seems to be more rare and usually due to a poor connection at the factory). Full disclosure, the biggest concern of my R1S is the complexity of the suspension components and I don't plan on keeping mine after the warranty period based on the stories I've seen. I absolutely love my R1S but am considering getting an R2 once that is out just for a simpler suspension setup or wait out until a revised R1S comes out with hopefully a more mature system in place that doesn't need to be replaced so often. Just my two cents.

 

[Goose]

Physical access is a complete shit show of a poorly designed and awfully executed system, IMO.

This is one of those technologies that has a surprising amount of variation. PaaK works 99% of the time for me.

Things are great with my Gen1 R1T. That being said, I think that PaaK is highly dependent on what phone you have, because Bluetooth antenna(s) may be arranged differently. I would have issues with a Pixel 6 and my truck (worked about 85% of the time), but now I have a Pixel 9a and I've not had a problem since the switch.

Paak worked horribly when I had a google pixel 8 phone; last year I switched to a Samsung Galaxy S25 and it has worked fine ever since.

Gen 1 owner. Seems like YMMV as others have said, but PaaK has worked for me 100% of the time. Occasionally it'll be like a second delay of me walking up to it, but always opens and gets going. Same cannot be said for the Kia EV9 I used to own or the Mach-E my wife owns currently where sometimes it takes getting the phone out and opening the app to get it to open. I do carry a keycard as backup but have never had to use it and it's a nice option to have for valets.

I never towed, so can't speak to that, but the suspension is known for having half-shaft issues, leaking dampers or failing altogether (the last part seems to be more rare and usually due to a poor connection at the factory). Full disclosure, the biggest concern of my R1S is the complexity of the suspension components and I don't plan on keeping mine after the warranty period based on the stories I've seen. I absolutely love my R1S but am considering getting an R2 once that is out just for a simpler suspension setup or wait out until a revised R1S comes out with hopefully a more mature system in place that doesn't need to be replaced so often. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the feedback, sounds like it's better but still a bit of a toss up depending on the Rivian and phone. I have an iPhone 17 Pro, not sure if that would make a difference or not. I would love to go drive the R1T, and maybe test the PAAK, but it would have to be shipped from MN to NC. Gen 1 PAAK is my major concern with this switch.

With the extended warranties now available, I'm less concerned about the complex air suspension issues than I was in the past. I would still like an R1T (not an R2 or whatever the mini R2T is) with simple coil spring suspension. I'm interested in the R2 but right now it's too abstract for me to understand the size and capabilities I would be missing out on from the switch. Rivian still hasn't posted official power, battery, and towing numbers.

I'm less concerned about towing now than when I bought my Sequoia is Dec '23. Rivian now has access to Tesla superchargers and I have more data on towing over the years. My 21' bay boat is less that 3K lb's on the trailer. With my Sequoia (on E Load 275/50r18 K03's) I get about 290 miles of range per tank. If the Sequoia can make it to the beach with a 1/4 tank left, a R1T at full battery should be pretty much the same.

 

[2kwik4u]

being able to tow my boat to the beach (151 miles one way).

I've done 135mi on a single charge towing my boat. If you had a max pack you could probably do the full 151mi on a single charge.

I really hate to keep being bad news bears, but I'm pretty underwhelmed with the towing experience. I've had a 19-sh foot boat for several decades now. Towed with everything from an S10 pickup to a trailblazer SS to a fullsize pickup to an AUdi Q7. The Rivian does an OK job, but it's not stellar. The power is acceptable (non-performance dual motor), but the handling is just OK, and the removal of all driver aids while towing is agitating.

You can read about it here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ian-generally-underwhelming-experience.47235/

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