My day-two review of the Comma 3X Self Driving Camera for Gen1 R1- Promising, but not ready for laymen.

[risingphoenix]

I've seen more than one person who has a comma comment that the system will NOT do lane changes automatically so unless this feature has been added in the last few weeks you're full of it.

Don't really care what you think Donald, because I have the system and have compared it to a friend's Gen 2. Right now, comma is better. Full stop. Your confidently ignorant opinion is based upon no experience with the system. And yes, single click of turn signal with automatic lane change utilizing BSM works beautifully. And many users would argue with your flippant disregard of the other advantages of comma lol.

Do or do not - I don't care. For those with Gen 2, I hope the development pace gives you what was promised. But for Gen 1 owners who have been left behind, the comma is not "a hack" but a fantastic way to give your vehicle new life and is currently better than Gen 2 ADAS.

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[MrMusAddict]

It's a safety limitation, not based upon being timid. Maybe they'll implement something, maybe they won't. But the main branch team will not allow something that threatens the safety of the system. It's open source, so you should feel free to develop your own fork and configure a system that works better for you. I have pretty high torque tires so would be happy to try your fork if you need help with testing. That's the beauty of open source compared with the approach Rivian and other automakers are taking and the rapid development is why Open Pilot is second only to FSD in safety and features (I would actually argue it's better than FSD given the lack of phantom braking and much more collaborative steering but that's just my opinion).

Yeah to clarify, I'm suggesting a fix that is within safety standards. At the moment, the system is dangerously too timid for drivers with higher tire wear, and is actually causing safety issues on the other side of the spectrum.

All I'm suggesting is that, via calibration, all Rivians' steering gets adjusted to offer the same safe relative torque.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Don't really care what you think Donald, because I have the system and have compared it to a friend's Gen 2. Right now, comma is better. Full stop. Your confidently ignorant opinion is based upon no experience with the system. And yes, single click of turn signal with automatic lane change utilizing BSM works beautifully. And many users would argue with your flippant disregard of the other advantages of comma lol.

Do or do not - I don't care. For those with Gen 2, I hope the development pace gives you what was promised. But for Gen 1 owners who have been left behind, the comma is not "a hack" but a fantastic way to give your vehicle new life and is currently better than Gen 2 ADAS.

The feeling is mutual about not caring what you think. Enjoy your hacked system.

 

[risingphoenix]

The feeling is mutual about not caring what you think. Enjoy your hacked system.

And enjoy playing catch up! Have a great day!

 

[risingphoenix]

Yeah to clarify, I'm suggesting a fix that is within safety standards. At the moment, the system is dangerously too timid, and is actually causing safety issues on the other side of the spectrum.

All I'm suggesting is that, via calibration, all Rivians' steering gets adjusted to offer the same safe relative torque.

Do you realize there is a calibration that takes at least an hour of driving that does improve steering around curves? And just to reiterate since you haven't acknowledged, you can dig into the open source code and be part of the solution rather than just complaining, yes?

 

[MrMusAddict]

Do you realize there is a calibration that takes at least an hour of driving that does improve steering around curves? And just to reiterate since you haven't acknowledged, you can dig into the open source code and be part of the solution rather than just complaining, yes?

I know the other guy in this thread has you riled up, but I don't have any quarrel with you.

Yes, I do understand that there is calibration that happens that improves steering torque. I have 3 hours of driving logged on my unit, and it is still only about 40% as powerful as the steering torque offered by Driver+. OpenPilot is running me off the road on fairly simple turns.

Yes I understand OP is open source. The title of my thread says "Promising, but not ready for laymen." I am not a developer, so I'm not "complaining", I'm suggesting an enhancement and warding off other laymen until it gets addressed.

 

[risingphoenix]

I know the other guy in this thread has you riled up, but I don't have any quarrel with you.

Yes, I do understand that there is calibration that happens that improves steering torque. I have 3 hours of driving logged on my unit, and it is still only about 40% as powerful as the steering torque offered by Driver+. OpenPilot is running me off the road on fairly simple turns.

Yes I understand OP is open source. The title of my thread says "Promising, but not ready for laymen." I am not a developer, so I'm not "complaining", I'm suggesting an enhancement and warding off other laymen until it gets addressed.

If you spend some time on the Discord server (yes I know Discord is a shitshow), you'll see this has been addressed many many times. And the data collection by Gerry has shown that the #1 determinant of lateral torque is tire quality. I switched from the OEM Pirelli 20" to the Toyo Open Country AT III EV (LT version) and now my steering around curves is much better than Driver+. With that option as a fix, I don't think there will be a huge amount of resources allocated to what you are suggesting without someone like yourself contributing. That is my only point. If you get better tires, it will almost certainly fix your complaints.

Edit: Also, remember that Open Pilot has been functional on Rivian Gen 1 vehicles for about 1 month. It is crazy how fast the development is proceeding thanks to the efforts of the open source community (mostly Lukas). With that short of a development cycle, I do agree with your opinion that this is not a plug and play solution yet. It's beta software that will be significantly different in another few weeks. I would not agree, though, with telling other Gen 1 owners to hold off as its current implementation is so superior to Rivian's.

 

[MrMusAddict]

If you spend some time on the Discord server (yes I know Discord is a shitshow), you'll see this has been addressed many many times. And the data collection by Gerry has shown that the #1 determinant of lateral torque is tire quality. I switched from the OEM Pirelli 20" to the Toyo Open Country AT III EV (LT version) and now my steering around curves is much better than Driver+. With that option as a fix, I don't think there will be a huge amount of resources allocated to what you are suggesting without someone like yourself contributing. That is my only point. If you get better tires, it will almost certainly fix your complaints.

Yep, I've actually been fairly observant of the discord. The problem is just much more severe than I expected. I was amazed that it couldn't handle turns on one of Driver+'s pre-mapped interstate freeways.

All I'm pointing out is that replacing tires is a degrading workaround, so I'm hoping some resources will be put into addressing it on the main branch. I imagine the function I'm asking for could be a useful feature for other existing/future cars as well, but for now it's dipping into a legitimate safety concern for Rivian.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Yep, I've actually been fairly observant of the discord. The problem is just much more severe than I expected. I was amazed that it couldn't handle turns on one of Driver+'s pre-mapped interstate freeways.

All I'm pointing out is that replacing tires is a degrading workaround, so I'm hoping some resources will be put into addressing it on the main branch. I imagine the function I'm asking for could be a useful feature for other existing/future cars as well, but for now it's dipping into a legitimate safety concern for Rivian.

Better be careful criticizing comma, this guy is really up in his feels about it.

 

[JM.]

tire quality.

Bullshit, specifically, calling it a "quality" issue. It's also completely ridiculous to tell people to change tires, possibly to something less useful for their needs, just to please the ADAS. I don't have OEM tires, and I do have "quality" tires, but OP can't even handle some gentle curves around my area. This is really stupid.

But of course, the native system can't even be enabled there, so obviously OP is better since it actually does something.

I got my secondary harness yesterday, hopefully I can start using the auto lane changing soon that Don says we don't have. BTW, you are wasting every word you type to him.

 

[MrMusAddict]

Bullshit, specifically, calling it a "quality" issue. It's also completely ridiculous to tell people to change tires, possibly to something less useful for their needs, just to please the ADAS. I don't have OEM tires, and I do have "quality" tires, but OP can't even handle some gentle curves around my area. This is really stupid.

But of course, the native system can't even be enabled there, so obviously OP is better since it actually does something.

I got my secondary harness yesterday, hopefully I can start using the auto lane changing soon that Don says we don't have. BTW, you are wasting every word you type to him.

To be fair to phoenix, tire quality does technically improve steering torque. But yes, not a sufficient solution in my opinion. Hope Comma can fix it.

 

[JM.]

tire quality does technically improve steering torque.

English is a vague language, and we have to apply context here.

The qualities of a tire include friction and factors that affect steering torque.

The quality of a tire does not affect this, or isn't directly related and proportional. A very high quality tire can still have high torque.



qual·i·ty
/ˈkwälədē/
noun

1.
the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.
"an improvement in product quality"

2.
a distinctive attribute or characteristic possessed by someone or something.
"he shows strong leadership qualities"

 

[DayTripping]

I was one of the earliest Rivian Comma adopters. The pace at which it has improved is phenomenal. Like often here, and many other forums, people talk past each other. I'd agree with 90% of the initial review.

On most turns, torque is sufficient, and typically far better than my D+. Unlike D+ or ADAS, if you need to help, it doesn't just give up. Tunnels aren't an issue either. Or long overpasses Rivian thinks are tunnels.

Right now you can lane change by the turn signal itself, even without the latest box, but you better make sure the lane is clear since there isn't the BSM integration without Lukas' latest box. You can do it as soon as you move the turn signal, slight delay, nudge, etc. If find this very useful. without the BSM integration. I do have the latest box but haven't had a chance to install it yet. That will also give steering wheel control of speed.

There are some really cool things done that weren't really touched on in the review. It will recognize signs pretty well. So if the speed limit goes up, and cruise is on, it will speed up. Additionally it can slow down when the speed reduces or there is a school zone. It can recognize stop signs but this is a bit inconsistent. One thing I really like is if I accelerate it will reset to my higher speed.

I love that I can swerve around a pothole and it doesn't disengage. I love that it can still function where roads don't exist such as driving across a parking lot, or down a trail. I love that it is totally hands free, and no crappy mapping required. It is also MUCH better when there is a setting sun and driving into. D+ blows chunks often in that situation.

While there was a cost to buy, there is no subscription fee. There are new features constantly introduced. MADS is a game changer for me as well. I've done 3k miles and it is better than any autonomous system I tried other than the latest version of Tesla's FSD.

Hands down I'll take this over Gen 2's ADAS. The various flavors such as Sunny, Frog, etc. allow you to find a model that works closer to what you want/need. Potentially there would be end to end navigation incorporated back in like it had earlier.

It really gave new life to G1 trucks and ,I don't feel I am missing anything by not having G2 ADAS. Yet another reason not to rust to upgrade to a G2 truck.

 

[R1TCA]

Thanks for sharing. I’m about to install my setup with the added longitudinal Lukas harness.
I’m not looking forward to the footwell contortions.
What pry kit did you buy? Which tool in that was most useful? (Pic if it’s easier to describe the tool?)

 

[dmurphy]

I got my secondary harness yesterday, hopefully I can start using the auto lane changing soon

It works really, really well. Lane changing is every bit as smooth as Tesla’s FSD. This was a game changer.

Install add-on cable and then update software to xnor-tech/sunny-mads-buttons. That’s it. There’s a toggle in the lane changing settings about using radar but it’s unnecessary;blind spot monitor input is always on.

I agree with the comments above about this feeling like a science project. The documentation for openpilot/comma SUCKS and having all these branches and builds doesn’t help. Too many acronyms and zero explanation. (Choosing models - - Tomb Raider 7 vs WD40 vs Filet o Fish? Seriously. That kind of nonsense has to change, and fast. They need to be descriptive and identifiable.)

That said - the technology is impressive, development itself is moving fast, and I expect it to improve shortly.

I wouldn’t say it’s ready for prime time, but I can definitely see a path from here. I already prefer this setup to Gen1 Driver+, even with its warts.

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