? Rivian IPO S1 Filing - reveals preorder numbers, R1S delivery date, Autonomous Subscription Fee & more...

[cardad]

the question was about the chargers than can do more than. 200, not the car. Hence I noted the two (general) EA pedestal power outputs.

Ioniq5 and EV6 pull about 220 peak. Which is insane given the size of their battery packs.

Which is the point, it's all relative to battery size. You're not going to dump 300kw I to your phone battery any time soon. But given the size of the large pack, it's entirely reasonable (at least according to other manufacturers) To dump more than 300kw into the R1T.

It's going to be really interesting to see the hummer's charging curve.

Time saved is going to depend on the curve (obviously). Getting 800v is just an easier way to cut down that time. At the end of the day it seems like the current charging curve is slower than average from what bits we have heard. Hopefully they can improve upon it, and or the reports are wrong.

Edit: I stand corrected, Kyle saw >230 with the EV6

https://insideevs.com/news/537223/kia-ev6-prototype-fast-charging/

It's already starting to look like we'll see battery swapping as a viable model sooner than later while charging and battery tech takes its time to catch up. If I were a commercial user going through many charge cycles per day the charging speed wouldn't be a concern with a battery swapping robot. Pretty soon you might see these on every corner like a Jiffy Lube for EVs.

Sponsored

 

[SeaGeo]

It's already starting to look like we'll see battery swapping as a viable model sooner than later while charging and battery tech takes its time to catch up. If I were a commercial user going through many charge cycles per day the charging speed wouldn't be a concern with a battery swapping robot. Pretty soon you might see these on every corner like a Jiffy Lube for EVs.

Have you seen a video of it in China? Pretty cool.

 

[Temerarius]

Have you seen a video of it in China? Pretty cool.

I see they (Nio) are also deploying this to Norway as part of their big push to get a foothold there.

 

[E.S.]

It's already starting to look like we'll see battery swapping as a viable model sooner than later while charging and battery tech takes its time to catch up. If I were a commercial user going through many charge cycles per day the charging speed wouldn't be a concern with a battery swapping robot. Pretty soon you might see these on every corner like a Jiffy Lube for EVs.

Here's the problem I see with battery swapping in the U.S. -

1) It will never take "5 minutes" to swap. Just like when someone takes their car to get their oil changed, by the time you make the appointment, get it to the place, and have them find the right sized battery for your vehicle, more than 30 minutes will have gone by due to the fact that there are no universal sized batteries here in the U.S. It will make more sense to just use a lv 3 charger.

2) There is too much competition between car manufactures for them to come to a consensus on a universal battery size. One company's 70 kwh battery will not be the same dimensions as another company's 70 kwh battery. By the time a battery swap facility gets ALL the battery sizes for the ALL the different EVs out there or all EV companies finally settle on a universal battery size in the U.S, battery technology will have advanced enough to make this feature practically needless. This is also not taking into account that these 3rd party facilities will have to get certified for all the different EV companies we have and will have in the U.S.

3) Battery advancements - it is no secret that battery tech is progressing. Soon we'll see graphene based and solid state batteries which will grant longer ranges and shorter recharging times. Making 'battery swaps' irrelevant.

I can see battery swapping as a short term solution, but what business will want to invest all that $$ into a business that may have 5/10 year lifespan?

 

[LordUlhtred]

3) Battery advancements - it is no secret that battery tech is progressing. Soon we'll see graphene based and solid state batteries which will grant longer ranges and shorter recharging times. Making 'battery swaps' irrelevant.

I agree with your other points but i disagree with this one. It is precisely that the battery technology advancements that makes the battery swap intriguing or worthy of pursuit. From a consumer’s perspective. I prefer not to be locked in to my “old battery tech” and can upgrade to a better battery without buying a brand new car.

 

[E.S.]

I agree with your other points but i disagree with this one. It is precisely that the battery technology advancements that makes the battery swap intriguing or worthy of pursuit. From a consumer’s perspective. I prefer not to be locked in to my “old battery tech” and can upgrade to a better battery without buying a brand new car.

If the U.S. came to an agreement regarding a universal battery size, I'd agree with you. Alas, that will not occur.

 

[electruck]

It is precisely that the battery technology advancements that makes the battery swap intriguing or worthy of pursuit. From a consumer’s perspective. I prefer not to be locked in to my “old battery tech” and can upgrade to a better battery without buying a brand new car.

The battery management and thermal systems mean you are locked into whatever battery tech the vehicle was originally designed for (not only chemistry but also module/pack configuration). This isn't like a flashlight where the consumer can randomly swap between alkaline, NiMH or Li batteries.

 

[Blg3404]

They actually provide that level of power or they advertise it? I will also say in southern MN those don’t even exist. It’s a barren wasteland up here

Same with Northeast Ohio. We're very behind the times, as well

 

[DucRider]

It's already starting to look like we'll see battery swapping as a viable model sooner than later while charging and battery tech takes its time to catch up. If I were a commercial user going through many charge cycles per day the charging speed wouldn't be a concern with a battery swapping robot. Pretty soon you might see these on every corner like a Jiffy Lube for EVs.

Battery swapping is a much better model for relatively dense urban markets.
Look at the RAN map and think about placing swap stations every 150(ish) miles along every interstate and major state hwy.
In urban environments it replaces the need for "home" charging (where you park overnight). No need to work on retrofitting parking garages or parking at a DCFC sometime during the day.
While the R1T/S may indeed be used - even primarily or solely by some - in urban environments, that is not how it is being marketed. Most buyers at least want to think they will be out and about exploring scenic vistas.
Americans also have a propensity to want to own their entire vehicle and seem to fear getting a pack swapped in that is at a lessor capacity than the one they gave up. They will most likely charge at home 90% of the time and if the last pack they got on their "Adventure" was at 85% capacity (still within the warranty specs), they would get less range until they took another trip and swapped to another pack (that could be even more degraded).

 

[DaveA]

Here's the problem I see with battery swapping in the U.S. -

1) It will never take "5 minutes" to swap. Just like when someone takes their car to get their oil changed, by the time you make the appointment, get it to the place, and have them find the right sized battery for your vehicle, more than 30 minutes will have gone by due to the fact that there are no universal sized batteries here in the U.S. It will make more sense to just use a lv 3 charger.

2) There is too much competition between car manufactures for them to come to a consensus on a universal battery size. One company's 70 kwh battery will not be the same dimensions as another company's 70 kwh battery. By the time a battery swap facility gets ALL the battery sizes for the ALL the different EVs out there or all EV companies finally settle on a universal battery size in the U.S, battery technology will have advanced enough to make this feature practically needless. This is also not taking into account that these 3rd party facilities will have to get certified for all the different EV companies we have and will have in the U.S.

3) Battery advancements - it is no secret that battery tech is progressing. Soon we'll see graphene based and solid state batteries which will grant longer ranges and shorter recharging times. Making 'battery swaps' irrelevant.

I can see battery swapping as a short term solution, but what business will want to invest all that $$ into a business that may have 5/10 year lifespan?

Also, what happens when the battery swapping station has a fault in the middle of swapping the pack…ooof.

 

[Scott]

I don't expect to ever have battery swapping. If it happens it would be something a specific manufacturer supports for their vehicles. The dimensions, cooling systems, etc etc are just too different from car to car. Plus there is a cost in design flexibility. If you have to make the battery easy to remove and replace that limits how the battery can be placed in to the car design. Plus there is a safety risk. Moving massive packs in and out of cars, not affixing them properly, etc etc could all damage the packs, which could pose a safety hazard.

Home charging is immensely convenient and covers at least 90-95% of most people's daily needs. I think it is much more likely that battery / charging tech improves such that charging is faster. If charging a car only takes 15 minutes, adding in the complexity of battery swapping just isn't worth the infrastructure.

Not to mention if I bought a new car with a battery pack without any degradation to it, I am not excited about going to one of these stations where you might get a 10 year old battery swapped in. No thank you.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Battery swapping is unlikely, imo, simply because no manufacturer will want to take the liability of accepting a bad battery pack as a core. They'd have to test the packs before accepting them, and that opens them up to increased warranty claims if a pack doesn't pass within the warranty period, and pissed off customers if they find themselves unable to swap packs, but otherwise weren't bothered by the performance of their battery pack.

I don't think the benefit outweighs the disadvantages for the manufacturers to offer this service. At least not outside of transport-as-a-service and subscription arrangements.

 

[SeaGeo]

Home charging is immensely convenient and covers at least 90-95% of most people's daily needs.

I will say it's an issue for people who live in apartments, Condos, or areas where they don't have their own parking space.

So.... almost everyone I know in Seattle.

IMO level 2 charging in urban environments is a bigger hurdle than the dcfc infrastructure.

 

[Maverick]

Ordered my plate.

I see you plate and raise it ...

 

[thrill]

I will say it's an issue for people who live in apartments, Condos, or areas where they don't have their own parking space.

So.... almost everyone I know in Seattle.

IMO level 2 charging in urban environments is a bigger hurdle than the dcfc infrastructure.

Maybe there's a business model to have a vehicle come charge you up at your parking spot while you sleep.

Sponsored