NYT: Tesla chief executive’s polarizing statements have alienated some potential customers

[MaskedRacerX]

If this is the worst you can find, it isn't great, but from what is shown it is inconclusive at best. So still I have not seen the toxic posts you are referring to.

There are droves of worse / equally bad examples, and it's been so incredibly visible across the entirety of the internet, it's pretty astonishing there are people who aren't aware of the many controversies over his behavior.

You were able to quickly deep dive in attempt to validate or disprove his antisemitic position. I'd suggest approaching the research into his disgusting behavior with the same zeal.

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[COdogman]

Yeah, that doesn't look good from the image you shared. I almost never use X, but I do have an account. I just went there to see if I could find that post and read the "Show more" part to see what the entire post is about. I found "breakingbaht" but he posts multiple posts a day, so going back to November of 2023 is difficult. Not sure how to do that without scrolling for hours.

The part shown is not something I would want to call "truth", but there is likely more there. Musk's response could have been to something not shown, IDK.

Do you have the link to the actual post? Not saying the image is fake, but that is always a possibility. The real X link would clear up that concern.

If this is the worst you can find, it isn't great, but from what is shown it is inconclusive at best. So still I have not seen the toxic posts you are referring to.

Maybe the real truth is not really what you want to believe. If he is antisemitic, why would he do this:

Elon Musk and the Israeli government have reached an agreement regarding the use of SpaceX’s Starlink satellite services in Gaza. During a visit to Israel, Musk met with President Isaac Herzog and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, touring the Kfar Azza kibbutz where a horrific massacre occurred. While much of the discussion centered around comments Musk made on social media, they also ironed out an agreement allowing Starlink internet services to be used in Gaza with Israeli government approval. The specifics of this approval, whether case-by-case or blanket, remain unspecified1. Additionally, Musk announced that revenue from advertising and subscriptions associated with the war in Gaza would be donated to hospitals in Israel and a humanitarian organization operating in Gaza2. His commitment to supporting communication links from the Gaza Strip to internationally recognized aid organizations during the conflict has sparked debate, with Israel expressing concerns about potential misuse by Hamas3. Furthermore, Musk expressed his desire to help rebuild Gaza after the end of the Israel-Hamas war4.

You know as well as I do that my posting that one is walking a thin line in this forum so you will have to do your own research if you want more background on it. I did it because I’m tired of people saying they haven’t seen him make any of these comments. He made the post and it is clear that he is agreeing with someone who holds some extremist views. This comment was at the root of him losing many prominent advertisers on X, to which he said they could “go f—k themselves” when asked about it in an interview. This got national coverage by all major news outlets and every automotive news outlet.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/29/23981928/elon-musk-ad-boycott-go-fuck-yourself-destroy-x

There are many more examples of him stepping way across the line. Too many to blow it off as accidental or just misunderstandings. It’s still up to each person if they care or don’t care about it. As the results of the poll that is the subject of this thread show, more people are starting to care about it. I’ve never been a big fan so this is all just icing on the cake for me…

 

[mkhuffman]

You know as well as I do that my posting that one is walking a thin line in this forum so you will have to do your own research if you want more background on it. I did it because I’m tired of people saying they haven’t seen him make any of these comments. He made the post and it is clear that he is agreeing with someone who holds some extremist views. This comment was at the root of him losing many prominent advertisers on X, to which he said they could “go f—k themselves” when asked about it in an interview. This got national coverage by all major news outlets and every automotive news outlet.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/29/23981928/elon-musk-ad-boycott-go-fuck-yourself-destroy-x

There are many more examples of him stepping way across the line. Too many to blow it off as accidental or just misunderstandings. It’s still up to each person if they care or don’t care about it. As the results of the poll that is the subject of this thread show, more people are starting to care about it. I’ve never been a big fan so this is all just icing on the cake for me…

I read the article, and it seems to be about that one post that you shared the image of, and the reactions that resulted. The article didn't provide a link to that post but Musk didn't deny it so it seems legitimate.

OK, he made a mistake with that comment. What others do you have? He admits it was a mistake, but of course we don't know his heart. He may mean it was a mistake to make the comment because he didn't read the post carefully or consider how it would be interpreted, or it could mean he is what you think he is and he is just trying to get out of it. People lie all the time when they get caught.

Which is it? I don't know, but he is helping Israel, and he did say he wants to help them more when the war is over. That should mean something.

Seriously, if there are so many bad things he has said, where are they? If the one comment is what everyone is upset about, holy crap. Normal people make mistakes every day. I do. Maybe he was high at the time, or drunk. He isn't the most moral person from that perspective, for sure.

His personal behavior does leave a lot to be desired, and not just in the way you mean. But IMO he is a visionary, and he has created some really incredible things with his various businesses. Sometimes the crazy people are the most brilliant. Or maybe he is just very lucky, and really an idiot. I doubt it, based on the results he has delivered to his shareholders and the things he has built.

Unless you have some new examples that demonstrate his toxic opinions, I think we beat the horse dead. That one mistake does not equal cancelling an entire person, and everything they produce, IMO.

 

[COdogman]

I read the article, and it seems to be about that one post that you shared the image of, and the reactions that resulted. The article didn't provide a link to that post but Musk didn't deny it so it seems legitimate.

OK, he made a mistake with that comment. What others do you have? He admits it was a mistake, but of course we don't know his heart. He may mean it was a mistake to make the comment because he didn't read the post carefully or consider how it would be interpreted, or it could mean he is what you think he is and he is just trying to get out of it. People lie all the time when they get caught.

Which is it? I don't know, but he is helping Israel, and he did say he wants to help them more when the war is over. That should mean something.

Seriously, if there are so many bad things he has said, where are they? If the one comment is what everyone is upset about, holy crap. Normal people make mistakes every day. I do. Maybe he was high at the time, or drunk. He isn't the most moral person from that perspective, for sure.

His personal behavior does leave a lot to be desired, and not just in the way you mean. But IMO he is a visionary, and he has created some really incredible things with his various businesses. Sometimes the crazy people are the most brilliant. Or maybe he is just very lucky, and really an idiot. I doubt it, based on the results he has delivered to his shareholders and the things he has built.

Unless you have some new examples that demonstrate his toxic opinions, I think we beat the horse dead. That one mistake does not equal cancelling an entire person, and everything they produce, IMO.

If we were just talking about this one example this would not even be a topic of discussion and there would not be polls about how his behavior affects his companies. He has been on a long run of behavior that I personally find horrible. Including allowing pervasive racism in his CA factory, to multiple credible accusations of sexual harassment and pressuring employees to have his babies because he feels he needs to populate the world with his genes.

There is plenty more, but as I said, I probably already crossed the line for the forum so I will stop there. Each person can decide if they are ok with it. It’s worth noting there are probably many CEOs who do and say equally crazy things and we never hear about it. He puts it all out there because he is obsessed with getting attention. So on a certain level I appreciate the transparency because it gives me an opportunity to make a choice.

If you are interested in finding more, it’s out there.

 

[RivianRunner]

The fact is Tesla sales are down, that is why he is cutting prices and doing whatever he can to sell products. Having driven a Model 3/Y in the past I wouldn't buy one over the competition any day of the week. It is really cheap inside, boring outside. Sure it has sold a lot, it was the only game in town. Tesla sales are down but Hyundai, Kia, BMW, etc etc are all increasing their EVs sales, people don't have to play by Elon's rules anymore.

That's the thing about the auto business, it doesn't care what any one individual thinks, it cares about total sales. And it's hard to argue with the company that has the best-selling car in the world.

Oh, and steadily cutting prices is literally in the original business plan they have been following since they sold their first Model S back in 2012. This isn't hard to understand, any original investor who read the prospectus knew that the plan was to steadily lower prices. The only reason they raised prices during the post-COVID supply chain shortage was because the other car companies couldn't perform as well as Tesla and demand for Tesla went through the roof. They HAD to raise prices to prevent delivery wait times from soaring over a year. Now they are steadily lowering them again. It's all according to plan.

It sounds like you have been listening to the mainstream media who can only see problems as Tesla's business plan unfolds just how they predicted. Lower prices are good for accelerating the transition to sustainable energy, good for new car buyers, and higher volumes are (eventually) good for profits and the value of the business. Elon is one auto CEO who does not think in the short-term.

 

[RivianRunner]

He's f-ing terrible, so either you've just missed his various comments, posts, etc., across various channels, including Twitter (which he's managed to make infinitely worse), or you just don't disagree with them.

Either way, I think it's a bit too far off topic for this thread, but in my family's opinion, he's a raging POS

I loved it when Elon told advertisers who were trying to bribe him to do what they wanted to GF themselves. I love such clear concise language. If it was a poor business decision, so be it. But it just goes to show that principles are more important to Elon than money. He will have the last laugh, of that I have little doubt.

I get it, some people don't believe in standing up for what you believe in if it will rock the boat too much or cost them money. To that I say, people can live anyway they want, as long as they are willing to live with the consequences of their decisions.

So far, it looks like Elon can stand up for what he believes in and still win more than anyone else. It looks like all the small-minded people in the world who try to apply their small-minded principles to him by boycotting his products and services, haven't had the intended effect (considering that Elon is the richest person in the world). Yes, he's living with the consequences of his words and deeds.

Which just goes to show, when you know you are taking the high road and standing up for important principles, don't stoop down to what others want you to do.

 

[emoore]

Can you provide a specific example? It is appropriate based on the OP, which IMO isn't really appropriate anyway. But since it seems to be allowed by the admin, so should discussion about it.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/media/elon-musk-testifies/index.html

calls people names because he doesn’t like them criticizing him. Sounds like a former president.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

I used to be cheering for Tesla but with Musk's behavior over the past few years, I can't wait for others to take the EV mantle and run with it. I know plenty of people won't buy Tesla because of him. Forget there is a ton of competition now exposing Tesla's weak products.

I will not buy a Tesla because of musk. That’s the main reason. They are also low quality cars, but they are also a lot cheaper at this point, so maybe that’s a semi wash.

 

[mkhuffman]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/media/elon-musk-testifies/index.html

calls people names because he doesn’t like them criticizing him. Sounds like a former president.

That's pretty weak. He insulted someone. Wow. Nobody ever does that, right? Not even current presidents.


?

And to clarify, I am not saying insults are appropriate at all, in any context. It is just a very weak reason to hate someone and boycott their products. It isn't any more "toxic" than all the other crap people from all sides do on a regular basis. I mean seriously. It's a cess pool out there.

 

[mkhuffman]

If we were just talking about this one example this would not even be a topic of discussion and there would not be polls about how his behavior affects his companies. He has been on a long run of behavior that I personally find horrible. Including allowing pervasive racism in his CA factory, to multiple credible accusations of sexual harassment and pressuring employees to have his babies because he feels he needs to populate the world with his genes.

There is plenty more, but as I said, I probably already crossed the line for the forum so I will stop there. Each person can decide if they are ok with it. It’s worth noting there are probably many CEOs who do and say equally crazy things and we never hear about it. He puts it all out there because he is obsessed with getting attention. So on a certain level I appreciate the transparency because it gives me an opportunity to make a choice.

If you are interested in finding more, it’s out there.

I agree with you: our money is the strongest vote we have. If you don't like Musk and what you think he is, then refusing to do commerce with his businesses is the right path.

For me personally, I have yet to see enough evidence that canceling every company associated with Musk is a path I want to take. As I posted previously, I know my politics are not in alignment with RJ's. Yes, when I buy that T he will benefit. I guess I have trouble hating people who have different opinions.

That said, there are a few businesses I won't use because of what they stand for. So I do get it. It's just the evidence Musk is the toxic person you think he is is very weak. IMO.

 

[emoore]

That's pretty weak. He insulted someone. Wow. Nobody ever does that, right? Not even current presidents.


?

And to clarify, I am not saying insults are appropriate at all, in any context. It is just a very weak reason to hate someone and boycott their products. It isn't any more "toxic" than all the other crap people from all sides do on a regular basis. I mean seriously. It's a cess pool out there.

Just another excuse for Elon. That’s what all the the Elon worshippers do to justify his actions.

 

[ukyank]

Why are Rivian owners on here seemingly so insecure in regards to another EV company in that negative Tesla postings occur ad nauseam on here? it really is a bad look & most of the posts just sound like my anti-EV boomer uncle ranting on Facebook .

Tesla forums rarely mention Rivian.

 

[COdogman]

I agree with you: our money is the strongest vote we have. If you don't like Musk and what you think he is, then refusing to do commerce with his businesses is the right path.

For me personally, I have yet to see enough evidence that canceling every company associated with Musk is a path I want to take. As I posted previously, I know my politics are not in alignment with RJ's. Yes, when I buy that T he will benefit. I guess I have trouble hating people who have different opinions.

That said, there are a few businesses I won't use because of what they stand for. So I do get it. It's just the evidence Musk is the toxic person you think he is is very weak. IMO.

Well that’s just it - in your opinion it it’s weak. For me I’ve seen enough over an extended period of time that I don’t need to see more. And obviously there are people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum from me who boycott businesses for reasons I think aren’t serious. Like you said, we each get to decide for ourselves and vote with our money. We are lucky to live in a place where we have those options ?

 

[COdogman]

Why are Rivian owners on here seemingly so insecure in regards to another EV company in that negative Tesla postings occur ad nauseam on here? it really is a bad look & most of the posts just sound like my anti-EV boomer uncle ranting on Facebook .

Tesla forums rarely mention Rivian.

Totally fact free criticism. It’s irrelevant to this discussion that Tesla forum members are self absorbed.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

/For the record, I am planning on purchasing a R1T Tri-motor Max, not because I like RJ's personal political beliefs (I don't), but because it is a great product. The only thing making me wait is company viability. I need to be comfortable they are going to be around for as long as I plan to own it.

Rivian's survival seems a reasonable concern, @mkhuffman, though I may be showing more confidence than you are. Developments since February 2024 have most of us on an optimistic course....

Curious what you know, or think you know, about "RJ's personal political beliefs." I know almost nothing about them, other than by observing Rivian's support for multiple environmental conservation initiatives.

For most business owners under most circumstances, "taking sides" politically seems to have far more downside risk than upside benefit in the market. So, thinking about Rivian's survival, I think it's in Rivian's best interest to have RJ be politically inscrutable.

Very best wishes!

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