2025 R1S Dual Large with 20" AT - range reduced from 307 to 280?

[RoadRunner]

I'm a preorder/voucher holder and have been waiting for the update to pull the trigger on a new 2025 R1S, Dual motor Large pack with AT upgrade.

I'm very happy with most of the updates and I'm pretty hesitant to buy the old version at this point. However, it seems the new Large pack has gotten smaller by about 20kwh resulting in a reported 27 miles less range on the AT wheels/tires than the 2024 version. I was hoping for slightly longer range with the update, not less. [EDIT: Oh well - I get why they'd do that, it makes sense from a business standpoint. So I'm not complaining, just trying to figure out whether the new smaller large pack would give us enough range.]

For our use case I think the AT upgrade is fairly important so we're not willing to give that up. No plans to tow and don't want to pay for Max pack if we can avoid it.

Am I overthinking this? Is losing 27 miles of range worth worrying about?
Is the range likely to improve with software etc?
I know there is some speculation that the new Large pack is actually a software locked Max pack - if that is true does that mean you can charge it to 100% more often with less degradation of the pack?

I live in Santa Fe NM, road trip destinations would be mainly hiking trips to Colorado/Arizona/Utah, an annual ski trip to utah, with perhaps an occasional national park trip to Wyoming/Montana or California. NM charging infrastructure isn't the best, but with a Tesla adapter maybe this is still plenty of range? I know we could also switch out the AT tires after purchase to get better range, but I really don't want to give up the RUS, spare tire, and compressor or go to 21"/22" wheels.

Not planning on hardcore off-road trails, but frequent dirt roads to trailheads, some of them fairly rough and remote, frequent snow use in winter for skiing, etc. Will charge in garage most of the time with power from solar panels. This will be our first EV. Thanks for any input.

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[Wildgoose115]

I have a '23 DM Large Pack with the ATs, and also noticed the range difference with the Gen 2.

Ultimately you will have to make the decision if 27 ish miles of range is more important than the additional updates on the Gen 2s. The best answer is to just get the 2025 with the Max Pack, but I understand saving money. IMO, go for the new model. You may enjoy the updates and will enjoy more years of OTAs with new features with the new software/hardware.

From my usage, I have never gone from 100% to a very low % and thought, man I wish I had 27 extra miles. The nav will route you to chargers based on your current state of charge regardless. For your day-to-day usage, you'll only be charging to 70% anyways.


I would not base your decision on speculation or potential OTAs. Make the decision based on what is available now so you know exactly what you are getting and will be happy with it. Just my .02 cents!

 

[RoadRunner]

Thanks for the reply. Definitely considering the max pack although I'd rather not spend the extra money. but with the 20% discount might be worth it.

 

[zefram47]

According to the OoS video, large pack went from 130ish kWh usable to 109 kWh usable for MY2025, which is around a 25 mile decrease in usable range. There's no confirmation that it's actually a different pack than Max and there's some suspicion it could be software locked, but decreasing the size of large pack is odd and likely just happened to further differentiate large from max. Sad, since they should've just added the 2 extra modules to make a real max pack at 180 kWh like was originally advertised years ago.

 

[Kidentist]

So.....pay more for less......... ? ..................?
Also noted the Standard + is gone.....

 

[jjswan33]

According to the OoS video, large pack went from 130ish kWh usable to 109 kWh usable for MY2025, which is around a 25 mile decrease in usable range. There's no confirmation that it's actually a different pack than Max and there's some suspicion it could be software locked, but decreasing the size of large pack is odd and likely just happened to further differentiate large from max. Sad, since they should've just added the 2 extra modules to make a real max pack at 180 kWh like was originally advertised years ago.

2025 large pack use the same cells/curb weight/payload according to Rivian. So Large pack is absolutely a software locked max, not sure how else to explain it.

 

[Southern R1S]

My 2023 R1S (Quad/Large/20" AT) is rated at 274 miles of range on a full charge (very close to the 280 of rated range on the Dual Large with 20") and I have never had any issues or stress with that level of range, despite living in the deep south where public infrastructure is still far behind what you'll likely find in more "EV Friendly" areas.

Your charge curve will be a little worse than the current Large due to the lower total capacity, but you should still be able to juice up relatively quickly on the road (especially when you're lower in the pack) so as long as there is decent public charging infrastructure in your area you're unlikely to really have issues with that level of range unless you're towing regularly (in which case I would step back an make sure an EV is the right fit for your use case).

The Gen 1 vehicles are still amazing trucks (especially quad), but unless you really need the extra HP, I'd say go ahead and apply that pricing to the 2025, enjoy the improvements, and enjoy your (now more refined) adventures!

 

[Khaos]

The better energy management (heat pump etc) I feel would make up for the lost 27 miles on drives wouldn't it?

 

[RoadRunner]

Thanks all for the feedback. Now thinking it might be worth upgrading to Max pack after all...with 20% voucher it's an additional $5600 instead of $7000, for an additional 90 miles of range (280 vs 370). That's a pretty sizeable 33% bump in range for $5600.

 

[ksurfier]

Thanks all for the feedback. Now thinking it might be worth upgrading to Max pack after all...with 20% voucher it's an additional $5600 instead of $7000, for an additional 90 miles of range (280 vs 370). That's a pretty sizeable 33% bump in range for $5600.

Excellent assessment - I think you are spot on...just for comparison, if buying a Tesla powerwall you'd be spending more than $1,000 per kwh....
I believe max is 141.5 vs 109 kwh, so for only $5600 you are getting 32.5 kwh additional battery pack...
$172 per kwh seems like a steal...

 

[Dark-Fx]

2025 large pack use the same cells/curb weight/payload according to Rivian.

Where have you seen that? I must have missed it. 2024 Dual+Large/standard/standard+ has an EPA test group that includes 9 - 9 module battery (Aren't all of Rivian's batteries in 2024 9 modules, including max pack?). 2025 Large hasn't been posted yet but I'm anticipating it potentially having a 7 instead of a 9.

I also see no good reason they wouldn't have Large available at launch if it was just a software locked Max other than trying to get people to buy a more expensive vehicle if they want one out of the gate.

 

[jjswan33]

Where have you seen that? I must have missed it. 2024 Dual+Large/standard/standard+ has an EPA test group that includes 9 - 9 module battery (Aren't all of Rivian's batteries in 2024 9 modules, including max pack?). 2025 Large hasn't been posted yet but I'm anticipating it potentially having a 7 instead of a 9.

I also see no good reason they wouldn't have Large available at launch if it was just a software locked Max other than trying to get people to buy a more expensive vehicle if they want one out of the gate.

Payloads are here:

https://media.rivian.com/shop/Builder/PDFs/R1T-Compare-06-04-24_rsok2o

I think it was one of the interviews in the OOS video that said there both the 53g cells but I guess we already know they have a similar weight anyway.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Payloads are here:

https://media.rivian.com/shop/Builder/PDFs/R1T-Compare-06-04-24_rsok2o

I think it was one of the interviews in the OOS video that said there both the 53g cells but I guess we already know they have a similar weight anyway.

See, I'm confused about those numbers because the LFP battery is supposedly only 60 kg lighter than max according to the EPA filings. And how is the tri-motor exactly the same weight as the dual (and how are all of those payloads the same as was being reported as max payload in 2022?)

 

[JeremyP]

Where have you seen that? I must have missed it. 2024 Dual+Large/standard/standard+ has an EPA test group that includes 9 - 9 module battery (Aren't all of Rivian's batteries in 2024 9 modules, including max pack?). 2025 Large hasn't been posted yet but I'm anticipating it potentially having a 7 instead of a 9.

I also see no good reason they wouldn't have Large available at launch if it was just a software locked Max other than trying to get people to buy a more expensive vehicle if they want one out of the gate.

I'm also guessing the large pack will be 7 modules instead of 9, which is 78% just like the stated capacity. It makes sense that it would take some extra design work to make the smaller capacity work so the large pack will come a bit later, and I can't imagine rivian would want to give away a lot of battery capacity with every large pack purchase for the next several years. This has made me lean towards max pack.

 

[jjswan33]

See, I'm confused about those numbers because the LFP battery is supposedly only 60 kg lighter than max according to the EPA filings. And how is the tri-motor exactly the same weight as the dual (and how are all of those payloads the same as was being reported as max payload in 2022?)

I agree some of those numbers don't really add up, its likely there are some mistakes somewhere. Also not sure any of the 2022's actually had more than ~1702lbs of payload. They also advertised they took out 60 lbs of wiring so. I guess time will tell.

It's like I was pointing out earlier some of the range numbers don't make sense either, for example:

DM Max goes from a range of 420 to 370 when you option the AT tires (~12%)
TM goes from 380 to 320 when you option the AT tires (~16%)

I'm guessing that 370 number is optimistic on the DM but I can always hope.

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