Experience shopping for an EV9 vs R1S - Update

[shrink]

Rivian fanboys will disagree, but it really seems like the only thing you get from the Rivian vs EV9 as far as features go is the extra off-road capability and the air suspension.

I haven’t looked at EV9 specs but I imagine the 0 to 60 acceleration is nowhere near an R1. Performance matters and is also worth a premium to many.

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[RivAW]

This situation won't apply to everyone, but I want to highlight one of the big challenges Rivian faces versus the competition with their current sales model.

We are looking to trade-in our Mercedes SUV and have narrowed down our search to the Kia EV9 or the Rivian R1S. On paper, an entry level R1S looks to be similar in price to the EV9, but the reality is a much different story.

Here are some of the details so far:

Kia EV9 GT-line
Price $77,395 (fully loaded)

Rivian R1S Ideal Spec (dual motor, standard+ pack, Limestone, 22" wheels, Ocean Coast)
Price: $85,250

Difference = $7,855

At first the difference in price isn't huge, and I would 100% buy the R1S over the EV9 for an $8k difference. However the gap gets a lot bigger quickly. Here is what the numbers look like when I factor in sales tax, tax credit, trade-in value, and discounts. The are approximate numbers.

Kia EV9
OEM Discount: $3750
Trade-in: $75,000
Sales Tax (9.03%): MSPR $77,395 - Discount $3750 - Trade-in $75,000 = $0 sales tax
Colorado Tax Credit (applies to $80k MSRP or less): $5000
Final EV9 Price: $68,645

Rivian R1S
OEM Discount: $0
Trade-in (through Rivian): Unknown from Rivian, must place $1000 deposit to get trade-in quote
Trade-in third party (Best so far is Carvana): $72,000
Sales Tax (9.03): MSRP $85,250 - Discount $0 - Trade-in (assuming third party trade-in) $0 = $7698
Colorado Tax Credit: $0
Final R1S Price: $95,948 (assumes trading in vehicle to Carvana with no sales tax credit, and $3000 less for trade-in)

Difference: $27,303

A couple of considerations. I don't know what the trade-in offer will be from Rivian, and that could have a big impact especially on the sales tax credit. They really need a way to get a trade-in quote without paying $1000 deposit. Unless I'm willing to take a risk on the $1000, I have to assume I will get a low ball offer from Rivian and will need to sell the car third party.

I could remove several options from the R1S to get the MSRP under $80k which would give me the $5000 Colorado tax credit. In that situation the final difference drops to $16,306.

Rivian does offer lease rates that are very competitive compared to Kia's lease rates, so that is still an option and will likely be our path if we go with the R1S. If I lease I get access to the $7500 federal tax credit (from both Rivian or Kia) but then I lose the sales tax credit. So if I buy out the lease I need to pay 9.03% sales tax on the buyout price.

The direct to consumer model has a lot of advantages, and so does standard pricing versus negotiating with a dealership. But having the ability to get trade-in quotes, and some small room for negotiation has a lot of benefits as well. I really want the R1S but my wife likes both the cars for different reasons. It's going to be a tough sell at the moment to justify the difference in price.

You forgot the (significant) dealer markup on a new Kia. Wheres do you think you are buying an EV9 at MSRP?
Also, shop your trade with Carvana, Driveway etc …you’ll probably get a better deal (even acknowledging the tax incentive to trade). Rivian isn’t in the business of selling used cars and will simply offer a little below current auction value (plus their costs to transport)…

 

[manitou202]

You forgot the (significant) dealer markup on a new Kia. Wheres do you think you are buying an EV9 at MSRP?
Also, shop your trade with Carvana, Driveway etc …you’ll probably get a better deal (even acknowledging the tax incentive to trade). Rivian isn’t in the business of selling used cars and will simply offer a little below current auction value (plus their costs to transport)…

I was offered $2k under MSRP for a local EV9 GT-line. There are plenty available and we are past the dealer markup phase.

 

[manitou202]

I haven’t looked at EV9 specs but I imagine the 0 to 60 acceleration is nowhere near an R1. Performance matters and is also worth a premium to many.

The dual motor R1S has the same 0-60 as the EV9 GT-line. Sure you can pay more for the dual motor performance or quad motor, but then the price difference becomes even greater.

 

[MidnightRivian]

I sat in the EV9 and own the R1S.

one is a minivan people hauler and the second is an off-road and on-road HYPERBEAST.

it’s like comparing a Lamborghini URUS to Hyundai Genesis GV80.

Both vehicles transport humans. That’s where the comparison stops.

 

[manitou202]

I shouldn't have mentioned what car I was cross shopping with the R1S. My point to this thread wasn't the R1S vs EV9 comparison. I'm well aware of the pros and cons of both.

But here is the problem. This is my wife's car and it's her decision. She is the type of buyer Rivian wants to attract to the R1S. Working mom, 3 kids, 2 dogs, good income, lives in Colorado, and wants a 3-row EV. I'm trying to bring up an issue with Rivian's trade-in process which can be a very important factor when buying a new car. Rivian doesn't allow for a way to get an upfront estimate so you can understand your cost to purchase their car. If it helps, replace EV9 with Land Rover Defender, or Land Cruiser, or any other vehicle you would consider as an alternative.

If Rivian had a better process, my wife would have probably ordered a Rivian already. But instead we are cross shopping and will potentially buy an alternative because she found it to be an easier option.

I'm on Rivian's side and want them to succeed. Maybe they can partner with a third party like Carvana or CarMax and simply honor their trade-in value. Something to allow for buyers to get an estimate before committing $1000 non-refundable deposit.

 

[Fmc]

@manitou202 have you reached out to RIVN on getting a trade in value? Hope they are more helpful than we are.

 

[manitou202]

@manitou202 have you reached out to RIVN on getting a trade in value? Hope they are more helpful than we are.

I've reached out to my guide with no response yet.

 

[oskeei]

I absolutely agree with the ridiculous sales process that Rivian has incorporated. Even the 8-Step is flat out cumbersome in every single respect. They could make this process incredibly simple and effective with three meetings on a white board and then implement.....Silly Rivian.

There are limits, but don't wait for Rivian to reach out, reach out to them to drive the 8-step process. It's been almost a year since I've gone through it. I didn't wait for my guide to call me, I called him and was maybe lucky to go from start to end of the 8 step in 24 hours and was able to pick up my S 4 days after I started the process.

Same with the trade-in, ask them to deviate from the standard operating process. If trade-in will drive your purchasing decision, I do not think Rivian puts much value or even attention to that factor.

 

[Zoidz]

What's clear is that the $1000 down and trade process may have worked for Rivian when demand was high and availability was low, it needs to change now. ANYTHING procedural that stands in the way of making a sale is hurting Rivian. They simply can't afford that at this point.

 

[White Shadow]

I'm well aware of the differences and trade-offs. But there are going to be a lot of people cross-shopping the EV9 and R1S.

I agree. This isn't exactly favorable for Rivian. I think the EV9 is going to end up a strong seller. Another big advantage is the fact that it's sold by an established manufacturer, so there's really no "future" risk involved in buying the EV9.

FWIW, I don't really like the looks of the EV9. I don't think it's ugly, but it's not exactly good looking either. I wish they would have done the aesthetics differently, but I guess others may disagree.

 

[gtrivian]

Just to clarify on the CO state tax credit. I will be claiming the Light Duty Passenger Vehicle > 8500 GVWR which both R1S and R1T of any price should qualify for and is $5000 for 2024. The innovative truck credit seems to be designated for commercial vehicles

https://tax.colorado.gov/imv-itc-changes-for-2024-and-later

 

[White Shadow]

...If you have no interest in using the capabilities that make the R1S special and only want one for its 3 row capacity, I'd say you're wasting money on purchasing one....

People like the idea of driving a rugged, capable vehicle. But let's be honest----the vast majority of people who buy into that concept are never going to leave the pavement. Maybe a gravel road at best. This is true for virtually every offroad capable brand vehicle out there, such as Land Rover, Jeep, etc...

That said, I can easily see how people could choose the Kia over a Rivian if their idea of ruggedness is trumped by the almighty dollar. At the very least, I for sure think the two vehicles will be cross shopped quite a bit since there's not much available yet in the 3-row electric SUV space.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I am actively being courted by Ford to buy a Lightning and am in limbo with the Rivian process. I could pick up a Lightning today for $20k less than the R1T (okay, $19k with the non-refundable deposit I already put down on the R1T). Sure, it can be argued that the R1T is a better vehicle, and I despise dealerships. But... Every hour I don't hear back from R puts me that much closer to F.

 

[NineElectrics]

People like the idea of driving a rugged, capable vehicle. But let's be honest----the vast majority of people who buy into that concept are never going to leave the pavement. Maybe a gravel road at best. This is true for virtually every offroad capable brand vehicle out there, such as Land Rover, Jeep, etc...

Honestly, after seeing the astronomical repair costs for even minor Rivian fender benders, I might never take my Rivian off road again!

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