CyberTruck is more than Stainless Steel...Tesla excels at Engineering in so many ways.

[Donald Stanfield]

There’s no bird’s eye 360 view in *any* Tesla. I still have a ‘21 MYP

Yes you are correct that Tesla doesn't offer the 360 view. If I owned a Tesla that they had time to make a fart mode and a romance mode but didn't have time to do something that comes standard on a Subaru.

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[COdogman]

Usually, the people who groan the loudest about "Tesla fan bois" are the biggest Rivian fans boys themselves. Ironic, isn't it?

Personally, I welcome all EV's with open arms and think people need to lighten up on the brand wars. Rivian is my second favorite brand, but I can even appreciate my brothers old Nissan Leaf for what it is. Rivian fans that hate Tesla tend to forget how Tesla's early successes with pure battery-electric cars are largely what propelled the many successful rounds of funding that Rivian used to become the automaker they are today. Without Tesla's successes, Rivian would not have been able to raise the billions of dollars they did, as easily as they did during the "EV gold rush".

That argument can be turned around on you just as easily.

Just because Tesla had early success does not mean they are immune to failure and mistakes in the future. Not a single person here denies that Tesla paved the way for other EVs. It gets credit for that all the time (including from myself). It doesn’t mean I need to believe everything Musk does is great or even like him a tiny bit.

You are trying to claim the high ground by saying you like both Rivian and Tesla and anyone who doesn’t is “irrational”, which is disingenuous at best. Most people understand that Rivian and Tesla and Musk can all be judged separately, despite what you imply.

 

[RivianRunner]

And with Tesla‘s history of FSD killing people, we can be sure their drive by wire will follow suit. Equating Tesla drive by wire to aircraft fly by wire is a fools errand. Did Tesla’s drive by wire go through even 25% of the testing and independent analysis required for FAA acceptance and certification of fly by wire? Of course not.

I can't believe people write garbage like this. Every passenger plane made since about 1980 has been 100% fly by wire. And yes, there are multiple redundancies built into both aviation and automotive systems to ensure reliable operation.

Remember, in a car you can just pull over, unlike in an airplane.

The big advantage of steer by wire is the highly variable steering ratio it enables and the safety of the person behind the wheel of not having a physical connection between the steering rack and the steering wheel during a frontal impact.

The variable steering makes maneuvering in tight parking lots, job sites and in constrained off-road maneuvers effortless. No longer do drivers need to turn the wheel hand over hand in frantic looking motions, just a small movement of the wheel will take the wheels to full lock at parking lot speeds.

I remember the first cars I drove as a kid, built in the 1960's the steering wheel felt impotent. You needed to turn those old steering wheels a long way (multiple wheel revolutions) to get a small movement in the angle of the front wheels. Over the years steering became more sensitive, but only so much, too much and the car would be twitchy on the highway. A small steering wheel movement might cause too large of a change in direction at highway speeds. Then came speed sensitive steering, like our 2000 Volvo S80 was equipped with. That was a big improvement but still required over two turns to go from lock to lock.

The fully uncoupled steer by wire is the final evolution of steering, and it has taken over a century to get here. Tesla was not the first to implement it, but they will be the first to mass produce it. It will be a very nice convenience to make slow speed maneuverings feel quick and effortless. It empowers the driver.

 

[MIG]

Are you saying it will cost more than $30,000 to repair a small dent in the rear corner? Oh, wait, the video in post #1 shows the truck in reverse smashing into a stainless-steel refrigerator and coming out of the encounter unscathed!

Is that supposed to be a compelling argument? Next time I run any of my vehicles into a free-standing refrigerator while in reverse and incur substantial damage I'll be able to effectively judge the miracle that is the Cybertruck.

 

[DuoRivians]

I can't believe people write garbage like this. Every passenger plane made since about 1980 has been 100% fly by wire. And yes, there are multiple redundancies built into both aviation and automotive systems to ensure reliable operation.

Remember, in a car you can just pull over, unlike in an airplane.

The big advantage of steer by wire is the highly variable steering ratio it enables and the safety of the person behind the wheel of not having a physical connection between the steering rack and the steering wheel during a frontal impact.

The variable steering makes maneuvering in tight parking lots, job sites and in constrained off-road maneuvers effortless. No longer do drivers need to turn the wheel hand over hand in frantic looking motions, just a small movement of the wheel will take the wheels to full lock at parking lot speeds.

I remember the first cars I drove as a kid, built in the 1960's the steering wheel felt impotent. You needed to turn those old steering wheels a long way (multiple wheel revolutions) to get a small movement in the angle of the front wheels. Over the years steering became more sensitive, but only so much, too much and the car would be twitchy on the highway. A small steering wheel movement might cause too large of a change in direction at highway speeds. Then came speed sensitive steering, like our 2000 Volvo S80 was equipped with. That was a big improvement but still required over two turns to go from lock to lock.

The fully uncoupled steer by wire is the final evolution of steering, and it has taken over a century to get here. Tesla was not the first to implement it, but they will be the first to mass produce it. It will be a very nice convenience to make slow speed maneuverings feel quick and effortless. It empowers the driver.

Steer by wire is a solution looking for a problem. It might make sense when you have multiple control inputs that need to be automated and controlled by a single input, such as in aircraft. But in cars, it’s really not worth it, other than to lower manufacturing costs.

Off-roaders want precision steering at low speeds. Thats not really possible in a steer by wire scenario, where low speed reduces the range of motion of steering and even an accidental turn of the wheel can magnify the wheel’s turn placement.

Further, in aircraft industry, there are heavy regulations and testing to ensure steer by wire have approved failsafes.

There is no such thing in cars. In a total power failure situation in cars, which is more likely than in airplanes, there is no mechanical way to turn the wheel with steer by wire. With mechanical steering, yes, you lose power steering, but feasibility, you can still muscle the wheel.

 

[RivianRunner]

Yes you are correct that Tesla doesn't offer the 360 view. If I owned a Tesla that they had time to make a fart mode and a romance mode but didn't have time to do something that comes standard on a Subaru.

My 2018 has Bird's Eye View, I don't know if you need to FSD to get it or not because all of our cars have FSD. I just took this screenshot in our driveway on a pitch-black night:

This view can be zoomed in or out, rotated 360 degrees or even rotated in the vertical dimension so the perspective is not 90 degrees straight down but 45 degrees (or whatever angle you want).

I've been driving for over 40 years without Bird's Eye View so it baffles me why so many younger people want it. It makes me think they have no situational awareness around their vehicle.

 

[RivianRunner]

You are trying to claim the high ground by saying you like both Rivian and Tesla and anyone who doesn’t is “irrational”, which is disingenuous at best. Most people understand that Rivian and Tesla and Musk can all be judged separately, despite what you imply.

I'm not trying to claim any high ground, I just think the Tesal haters are not thinking rationally. It's like middle-schoolers rooting for their favorite high school football team and demonizing the cross-town rivals.

I mean, I don't have the highest opinion of Mary Barra or GM, but I don't run around spreading irrational hate while trying to demonize them.

 

[Stickboy46]

My 2018 has Bird's Eye View, I don't know if you need to FSD to get it or not because all of our cars have FSD. I just took this screenshot in our driveway on a pitch-black night:

This view can be zoomed in or out, rotated 360 degrees or even rotated in the vertical dimension so the perspective is not 90 degrees straight down but 45 degrees (or whatever angle you want).

I've been driving for over 40 years without Bird's Eye View so it baffles me why so many younger people want it. It makes me think they have no situational awareness around their vehicle.

Well that's not a birds eye view which is why you probably don't understand why a real one is useful.

I agree that what Tesla implemented there is worthless

 

[SSteveEV]

Is that supposed to be a compelling argument? Next time I run any of my vehicles into a free-standing refrigerator while in reverse and incur substantial damage I'll be able to effectively judge the miracle that is the Cybertruck.

Remember to do it with a hitch ball in to do the initial hit.

 

[RivianRunner]

Rivian is getting there with the Peregrine overhaul. What is somewhat annoying is that people are clamoring over the 800v tech when in reality, there are few chargers that can even deliver this. V4 superchargers are just rolling out and won’t be anywhere as ubiquitous as v3 chargers are, at least for a few years. By then, Rivian and nearly everyone else will be on 800v. So having 800v today is kinda bragging rights only

Don't under-estimate the speed at which Tesla is rolling out new Superchargers in N. America. With the users of Supercharging about to increase by 25% overnight, Tesla has been accelerating the buildout of new chargers. Why are no other auto manufacturers, not even ones with 10 times the resources, making fast-charging investments of this scale for their EV customers?

This year, the small town on I-5 I live 15 minutes from more than doubled the number of Supercharger stalls (and upped the speeds from 150KW to 250 KW). The town had 12 150 KW stalls and a couple of months ago they added 16 250 KW stalls (all of them pull-through).

 

[Donald Stanfield]

My 2018 has Bird's Eye View, I don't know if you need to FSD to get it or not because all of our cars have FSD. I just took this screenshot in our driveway on a pitch-black night:

This view can be zoomed in or out, rotated 360 degrees or even rotated in the vertical dimension so the perspective is not 90 degrees straight down but 45 degrees (or whatever angle you want).

I've been driving for over 40 years without Bird's Eye View so it baffles me why so many younger people want it. It makes me think they have no situational awareness around their vehicle.

That's not the birds-eye view that we are talking about. That stupid simulated graphic Tesla has no frame of reference to natural objects. The 360-degree camera is a stitched-together view of the Parameter cameras that looks like you are looking down on the car from above. You see what you'd see IRL. What do I use it for more than anything? Centering myself in a parking space. Seeing where my car is in relation to the parking lines is excellent.

Did I get along before the camera view? Sure, but occasionally, I would have to repark after getting out because I was too close to a line, and parallel parking is much easier in the city. Is it necessary? No, but it sure heck is helpful, and I'm beyond the point of needing to stick to just the basics and have some creature comforts additionally.

 

[RivianRunner]

Well that's not a birds eye view which is why you probably don't understand why a real one is useful.

I agree that what Tesla implemented there is worthless

It certainly is bird's eye view, unless you don't know what the term "bird's eye view" means.

 

[Stickboy46]

It certainly is bird's eye view, unless you don't know what the term "bird's eye view" means.

Lol. No it's not. It's an animation. There is no view of any thing real there. Why don't you look up what a real 360 birds eye view is that is available in many cars including the Rivian.

 

[Zoidz]

I can't believe people write garbage like this. Every passenger plane made since about 1980 has been 100% fly by wire. And yes, there are multiple redundancies built into both aviation and automotive systems to ensure reliable operation.

Remember, in a car you can just pull over, unlike in an airplane.

The big advantage of steer by wire is the highly variable steering ratio it enables and the safety of the person behind the wheel of not having a physical connection between the steering rack and the steering wheel during a frontal impact.

The variable steering makes maneuvering in tight parking lots, job sites and in constrained off-road maneuvers effortless. No longer do drivers need to turn the wheel hand over hand in frantic looking motions, just a small movement of the wheel will take the wheels to full lock at parking lot speeds.

I remember the first cars I drove as a kid, built in the 1960's the steering wheel felt impotent. You needed to turn those old steering wheels a long way (multiple wheel revolutions) to get a small movement in the angle of the front wheels. Over the years steering became more sensitive, but only so much, too much and the car would be twitchy on the highway. A small steering wheel movement might cause too large of a change in direction at highway speeds. Then came speed sensitive steering, like our 2000 Volvo S80 was equipped with. That was a big improvement but still required over two turns to go from lock to lock.

The fully uncoupled steer by wire is the final evolution of steering, and it has taken over a century to get here. Tesla was not the first to implement it, but they will be the first to mass produce it. It will be a very nice convenience to make slow speed maneuverings feel quick and effortless. It empowers the driver.

"I can't believe people write garbage like this."

Believe it... and get over it cuz I sure as sh** don't care if you can't believe it. That's your problem.

Tesla has not put anywhere near the testing and validation into steer by wire compared to the airline industry. To believe otherwise is pure igonorance. To defend Tesla steer by wire citing airline fly by wire is ludicrous.

This crap about "variable ratio steering" being the revolution of steer by wire is just that - crap, but keep drinking the Elon Kool-Aid. Variable Ratio Steering patents exist as far back as the 50s. Honda delivered VRS in production cars in 1997. BMW introduced it in 2003. It's been around on rack and pinion systems and continuously refined for over 20 years.

To be perfectly clear, I have nothing at all against steer by wire. I have a problem with a critical safety related system being introduced by a company whose CEO agreed that there were no accidents or deaths caused by FSD, when in fact Tesla knew of hundreds of FSD accidents and the possibility of a few fatalities when he said that.

https://futurism.com/deaths-crashes-tesla-autopilot-surged

"According to the analysis, there have been at least 736 crashes in the US that involved the EV maker's controversial driver assistance feature since 2019.

Out of those 736 accidents, at least 17 were fatal, a considerable increase from just three deaths reported in June 2022. The NHTSA found that there were 807 automation-related crashes over that period, which means Tesla accounted for over 90 percent of them."

 

[RivianRunner]

Remember to do it with a hitch ball in to do the initial hit.

The Cybertruck didn't have a tow ball installed when they slammed it into a refrigerator while backing it up. The bodywork and bumper took the full force of the impact.

Now, I agree, a good driver shouldn't be backing into large, heavy and hard objects like full-sized refrigerators, but they wanted to see what would happen when you f***ed up. They really slammed it and sent the refrigerator back about 5 or 6 feet.

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