Why R1T outselling Lightning 4-1?

[Cosmacelf]

Let's see, Ford has massive distribution, a dealer on every corner, a 100 year old brand vs a startup with no distribution and scattered service centers, yet Rivian is massively outselling the Lightning? Why?

Edit: I messed up on the number - while Rivian doesn't break out sales numbers per vehicle type, we can estimate that Rivian and Ford sold about the same number of R1Ts and Lightnings in 2023 through 3Q. Still, impressive for a startup like Rivian to match Ford.

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[emoore]

Because ford doesn’t want to sell EVs. They would be happy if EVs died and everyone went back to ICE.

 

[R.I.P.]

Because ford doesn’t want to sell EVs. They would be happy if EVs died and everyone went back to ICE.

Yep

 

[COdogman]

Ford's dealers seem to think they know better than Ford how the company should be run.

Turns out if the dealers try really hard to hide the EVs on their lots and make sure their sales jerks don't know anything about them and incentivize selling only the ICE vehicles, those darn EVs just don't sell very well ?‍

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Because the lightning is a truck without a market. It doesn't appeal to the F-150 buyer because he wants to tow. The Rivian doesn't go after the traditional truck market. Tech bros and upper middle to upper class professionals are the ones buying the Rivian and many of them weren't F-150 buyers.

 

[COdogman]

Because the lightning is a truck without a market. It doesn't appeal to the F-150 buyer because he wants to tow. The Rivian doesn't go after the traditional truck market. Tech bros and upper middle to upper class professionals are the ones buying the Rivian and many of them weren't F-150 buyers.

What about professional low class like myself?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Because the lightning is a truck without a market. It doesn't appeal to the F-150 buyer because he wants to tow. The Rivian doesn't go after the traditional truck market. Tech bros and upper middle to upper class professionals are the ones buying the Rivian and many of them weren't F-150 buyers.

Basically, I think you are saying the lightning doesn’t have enough range. Nor an option to get more range like the Rivian max pack.

 

[SANZC02]

If you are looking for a lightening search the ford site. There are several in SoCal, lots of trims and looks like they are giving a $7500 discount so they are below sticker.

 

[madgrey]

What about professional low class like myself?

Rivian loves you too.

 

[ohseedee]

Because the lightning is a truck without a market. It doesn't appeal to the F-150 buyer because he wants to tow. The Rivian doesn't go after the traditional truck market. Tech bros and upper middle to upper class professionals are the ones buying the Rivian and many of them weren't F-150 buyers.

ThIs. Lots of folks gave Ford praise for making the lighting a regular truck, but that’s why few are interested. If you want an F150, get an ICE F150 as it’s cheaper and can do more. If you want an EV truck get a true EV truck. And Rivian is the only true ground up EV truck you can get today (and soon the CT).

 

[Rivdog]

I think Ford’s dealerships really soiled the brand’s reputation, especially during COVID. Before the Rivian, I had 2 Mach E’s and it was not a pleasant experience to buy them. Nearly every dealer was doing sketchy stuff at best and outright stealing at worst (surreptitiously assigning the state EV rebate without telling the buyer). I wasted so many hours buying those cars.

Even then, I still (narrowly) picked the Lightning over the Rivian, mostly based on what the price was supposed to be. When it came time for the order banks to open, it was nearly impossible to get one without at least a $10,000 ADM. Wasn’t uncommon to see as much as a $30,000 ADM. I’m not just talking about ones on the lot, I’m talking about that much ADM just to place an order for a vehicle we paid a reservation for 1+ year earlier and would have to wait until an allocation was available. Yeah, dealerships got people to pay those massive ADMs just to order a vehicle they might get after 6-12 months. I was done with Ford at that point and committed to Rivian so that I’ll never have to deal with a Ford dealer ever again.

What many people don’t realize is that consumers are not Ford’s customers. The dealerships are Ford’s customers, and Ford generally can’t dictate the actions of the dealerships. If it gets bad enough, Ford can reduce a dealer’s allocations of the most desirable vehicles, but that’s about all. I think a lot of consumers just got sick of the nonsense.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

The Lightning is pretty much a F-150 with electric drive. It makes a fine transition for any F-150 owner wishing to electrify. However, unsurprisingly, the demographic that buys one F-150 after another isn’t interested in electrified anything. They’ve just gotten settled on the fact that their favorite trucks are now made with AL instead of good old iron. A BEV F-150? Whoa, Nelly. Slow that pony. That's too much progress too soon. The outliers who don’t mind—and have means to stomach or skip high interest rates—have already bought or don't find it special enough to tug heart strings.

The R1T targets a different demographic and is a clean slate truck design, but is also familiar (not a shock'n'awe assault on the senses like the CT is). From the start, it is specifically designed to be an adventure lifestyle product. While Lightning, like all F-150s, starts with requirements of a work truck, then trimmed up to have various levels of creature comforts and tech one would expect of a personal vehicle.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

What about professional low class like myself?

Maybe you aren't the target market of the R1 series but I'm sure Rivian is as happy to have you as a customer as we all are with you being here.

 

[iansriv]

It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. This isn't just the auto industry. I've seen it in many established companies. They are their own worst enemy. Why not create a separate "EV" brand sort of like what Toyota did with Lexus and let it be independent? I want the US brands to succeed but if they keep this up, the likes of Rivian and Tesla will be the "big 3."

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Basically, I think you are saying the lightning doesn’t have enough range. Nor an option to get more range like the Rivian max pack.

No, not really what I mean.

ThIs. Lots of folks gave Ford praise for making the lighting a regular truck, but that’s why few are interested. If you want an F150, get an ICE F150 as it’s cheaper and can do more. If you want an EV truck get a true EV truck. And Rivian is the only true ground up EV truck you can get today (and soon the CT).

This is what I meant. An F-150 buyer probably doesn't care about going EV, and the people who want an EV aren't looking at F-150's. I would probably buy a, F-250 Tremor or a Raptor R if I had to buy a Ford, both of which are much "cooler" trucks than the Lightning is. The Lightning is more or less a base F-150 with an BEV drivetrain.

Personally I bought the Rivian because it's stupid fast and I needed a truck but wanted a C8 and I refuse to have multiple vehicles because looking at a car I'm not driving makes me feel guilty. I'm about to sell my motorcycle even because I just cant motivate myself to ride it as I have enough fun with my R1.

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