Rivian is near the bottom of this predicted reliability study

[SANZC02]

I'd love if we had some sort of community guide for simple but catastrophic shit to check on our Rivians. I've seen a lot of dumb things break that could have been avoided if we knew to check. For example, saw one Rivian died recently due to a loose grounding screw and another had some wires near the wheel rub against the tire because it was installed in the wrong position. That said, I've had zero issues in 8k miles and 10 months other than the issue I had at delivery which is my USB ports by the rear vents don't work and that's not worth an SC trip yet.

Curse you…. Now I have to go check my USB ports….

Never mind… ignorance is bliss, our pups don’t use them, we will assume they are fine..?

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[KimBrennan]

Consumer Reports has been a big lover of Toyota (and Lexus) for years. I gave up respecting them when they gave a thumbs up to a Toyota's climate control, over a Nissan's (the climate controls were exactly the same).

 

[Redline]

They are stopping for reengineering in 2024. This has been communicated multiple times.

 

[COdogman]

(scratches head) Everyone seems to want to ignore this, but Rivian is right where their choice to prefer quantity over quality inevitably positions companies. Dismissing CR's polling results is not the path to success - we'd be crowing about it if Rivian was rated at the top of that assessment.

That isn’t the choice they were faced with. The choice was sell as many as possible or go out of business.

I’m sure if this were a perfect world they would have had no QC issues and scaled service centers proportionate to sales. We don’t live in that world and starting a new vehicle manufacturer is incredibly difficult.

Also, this “study” is extremely subjective. Can’t say their methods make much sense.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

If you want to be on the cutting edge of anything you probably won't have the most reliable thing. Being first isn't without its risks and if you're not willing to risk a broken truck to have IMO the best truck on the market you should buy yesterday's tech and get a Toyota. They have that shit nailed down.

I trusted my Rivian enough to take it on a cross country trip to my remote hunting property a couple weeks ago and I plan on taking it back there in spring. I've put 20k on my truck in a little over a year and its been great.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I hate seeing Rivian so far down the list; even if it is a CR study.

https://www.autoblog.com/article/predicted-car-reliability/

Famous quote from famed journalist and satirist H.L. Mencken: There are three kinds of lies. Lies. Damn lies and Statistics.

Any survey or collection of data can be twisted to support a prejudiced position. By how the questions are phrased and by ignoring context. Never take surveys and editorial conclusions at face value. You have to read/think further than the click-bait headlines, unless you wish to be the author's useful fool.

 

[Singletracker]

I‘d love to see Rivian rank higher on this list, maybe someday. The game is early for Rivian and the sample size is small. I think they will move up on that list, with time.

Toyota at the top, again, and for good reason. I’ve owned a bunch of Toyotas, of all kinds. In fact, I just traded my beloved FJ Cruiser in for my R1T. That hurt! Toyotas are simply bullet proof. MBZ and VW are at the bottom of the list for good reason. I used to own an MBZ and never again. Some little thing was always going wrong with it. When it needed repairs/service or parts, the cost was a complete, shameful ripoff. Owned numerous VW’s and never thought much of them, either.

 

[TollKeeper]

I dont know how much faith I can put in that list...

Chrysler is 30, Jeep is 26, Dodge is 21, Ram is 15.. This is the same company. In theory, they should be right next to each other. Like Honda and Acura are, and Lexus and Toyota are. But even Audi/VW/Porsche are spread apart.. Again the same company.

 

[AllInev]

I hate seeing Rivian so far down the list; even if it is a CR study.

https://www.autoblog.com/article/predicted-car-reliability/

Not surprised, but hoping Rivian makes improving reliability a priority. It's been my favorite, but least reliable vehicle of the past 30 years.

 

[TollKeeper]

Consumer Reports: Electric vehicles less reliable, on average, than conventional cars and trucks
By TOM KRISHER
AP Auto Writer
DETROIT (AP) — Electric vehicles have proved far less reliable, on average, than gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs, according to the latest survey by Consumer Reports, which found that EVs from the 2021 through 2023 model years encountered nearly 80% more problems than did vehicles propelled by internal combustion engines.

Consumer Reports said EV owners most frequently reported troubles with battery and charging systems as well as flaws in how the vehicles’ body panels and interior parts fit together. The magazine and website noted that EV manufacturers are still learning to construct completely new power systems, and it suggested that as they do, the overall reliability of electric vehicles should improve.

“This story is really one of growing pains,” said Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “It's a story of just working out the bugs and the kinks of new technology.”

Still, Consumer Reports noted that lingering concerns about reliability will likely add to the issues that give many buyers pause when considering a switch to the new technology, joining concerns about higher costs, too few charging stations and long charging times.

The growth of electric vehicle sales has slowed sharply since last year. In June 2022, EV sales were growing about 90% year over year. By June of this year the 12-month growth rate had slowed to about 50%, and automakers have become increasingly fearful that the pace will weaken further.

Reflecting that concern, about 3,900 U.S. auto dealers this week signed a letter to President Joe Biden, asking him to rethink what the dealers called unrealistic fuel economy and emissions requirements that could require electric vehicles to reach 67% of total U.S. vehicle sales by 2032.

Consumer enthusiasm for EVs, their letter warned, has stalled.

“They are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships, even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives and generous government incentives,” the letter said.

The Consumer Reports survey also concluded that plug-in hybrids, which can travel on battery power before a gas-electric powertrain kicks in, are more problem-prone than fully electric vehicles. Plug-ins, Fisher pointed out, contain two separate and complex power systems in which glitches can arise. He also noted that brands that over time have proved less reliable, in general, such as Jeep and Volvo, have started mass-producing plug-in hybrids.

But tried-and-true integrated gas-electric hybrid systems are more reliable than gasoline vehicles, largely because they have been in use for about a quarter-century and the bugs have mostly been worked out, Fisher said.

Consumer Reports derived its survey data from subscribers who owned EVs from the 2021 through 2023 model years and compared them with other vehicle types. In calculating a vehicle’s average problem rate, the organization assigned extra weight to serious problems such as battery or engine failures.

EVs from the 2021 and 2022 model years overall had more than twice the problem rates of internal combustion vehicles. The rates were more closely aligned in the 2023 model year: Those EVs had only 21% more problems than gasoline vehicles, Fisher said.

The narrower gap in problems between EVs and combustion vehicles in the 2023 model year, Fisher said, suggested that the reliability of EVs, in general, is improving. Still, he noted, newer vehicles tend to have lower problem rates that rise as they age.

Among the EV owners who have had problems with their vehicles is Michael Coram of Lockport, New York, near Buffalo. In July, intent on reducing his commuting costs, Coram bought a 2023 Chevrolet Bolt electric SUV, attracted by its sporty handling. Coram, 44, a heating and air conditioning technician, said he ran into one annoying problem: On a chilly day in mid-November, his Bolt wouldn't shift into drive.

Eventually, after Coram had turned the car on and off 10 or 12 times, the problem fixed itself, and he hasn't experienced it since. Other owners on a Bolt social media forum told Coram that he might have shifted into drive before the SUV's computer had finished its startup sequence.

“It kind of is a bit too much for the computer to handle,” he said.

Now, Coram waits for all of the dashboard lights to go out before pushing the drive button. He said his dealer told him that mechanics will check the Bolt when a loaner car is available for him.

In 2021, General Motors recalled its popular electric Bolt from the 2017 through 2022 model years to replace the batteries because of manufacturing defects that could cause fires. Fisher said Bolt owners had to limit how much they charged the batteries and had to park them outdoors until replacement batteries became available. Repairs were still being made this year, Fisher said, causing some Bolt owners to report problems in the Consumer Reports survey.

In addition, owners of Hyundai's Ioniq 5 EV reported battery and charging issues related to a charging control computer, which, in some cases, caused the vehicles to stall.

Rivian, an upstart manufacturer of electric pickup trucks and SUVs, had trouble getting body panels to line up correctly and with broken interior parts, Fisher said.

Tesla, the EV sales leader, which now has years of experience building vehicles, showed improvement in reliability, Fisher said. This was largely because a high proportion of Tesla's sales involve the relatively small and less-expensive Model Y SUV and Model 3 cars. Those are simpler to build and lack the glitch-prone new technology that Telsa offers in its more expensive vehicles, the Models S and X.

Tesla ranked 14th out of 30 automotive brands in the 2023 survey, up from 19th in 2022.

Lexus, Toyota's luxury brand, was the most reliable in the survey, followed by Toyota, Mini, Acura and Honda. The five lowest-ranking brands were Jeep, Volkswagen, Rivian, Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler.

The most reliable segment of the market was compact cars, followed by sportscars, small pickups, midsize and large cars, luxury midsize and large cars. Electric cars, electric SUVs, full-size pickups, midsize pickups, and electric pickups had the worst reliability.

Consumer Reports says its survey of subscribers, representing 330,000 vehicles, took place last spring and summer. It asked owners of vehicles from the 2000 through 2023 model years, with a smattering of 2024 models, about problems they had experienced in the previous 12 months.

 

[SANZC02]

I‘d love to see Rivian rank higher on this list, maybe someday. The game is early for Rivian and the sample size is small. I think they will move up on that list, with time.

Toyota at the top, again, and for good reason. I’ve owned a bunch of Toyotas, of all kinds. In fact, I just traded my beloved FJ Cruiser in for my R1T. That hurt! Toyotas are simply bullet proof. MBZ and VW are at the bottom of the list for good reason. I used to own an MBZ and never again. Some little thing was always going wrong with it. When it needed repairs/service or parts, the cost was a complete, shameful ripoff. Owned numerous VW’s and never thought much of them, either.

I did my own scientific test, I flipped the page upside down to see how Rivian would do, worked great they were third from the top.

I would provide you with all of my data and the actual details including weighted values for all of my data points as well as number of samples for each vendor but I do not want to confuse or bore you with those trivial details.

Should I disclose I own Rivian stock…? No I checked my criteria and weighted the response, seems it has minimal impact on my results.

 

[R1SPilot85]

I’d say it’s a win for Rivian to beat out Mercedes Benz with only a few years of manufacturing.

Curse you…. Now I have to go check my USB ports….

Never mind… ignorance is bliss, our pups don’t use them, we will assume they are fine..?

 

[NY_Rob]

I have had zero problems with my Rivian from day one.. CR did not send me a questionnaire about my Rivian experience. The results are flawed...

 

[NineElectrics]

That isn’t the choice they were faced with. The choice was sell as many as possible or go out of business.

I would have thought it would be, “sell as many as possible or raise more equity.” I suppose not spending billions on a brand new factory, or deferring it for longer, was also an option.

I think it’s a greed play. RJ doesn’t want to dilute his equity by raising. So, spend on growth to drive valuation, but not on things like quality and service centers.

 

[COdogman]

I would have thought it would be, “sell as many as possible or raise more equity.” I suppose not spending billions on a brand new factory, or deferring it for longer, was also an option.

That was a big move, no doubt. But they cannot make another model out of Normal. They are betting on themselves and I have no problem with that.

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