Fast Company article: Tesla’s Cybertruck has a serious problem that only a complete redesign can fix

[EVsinROC]

I don't know exactly the timeline of pre vs actual production, but I would be surprised if any manufacturer is allowed to deliver to consumers without having passed the tests??‍

Tesla's previous vehicles were all very safe (not including FSD), but the CT is obviously quite a departure from all of them. If there is something inherently unsafe about the design or construction of it, that will be interesting.

Any you insinuating that FSD is unsafe? I’m what ways? Please be specific in # of deaths caused by FSD v driver error.

Sponsored

 

[zajak1]

What a business as usual, not invented here thinking and comments by Fast Co.

Experts said the exactly the similar thing for SpaceX Falcon 9 operations mode. It cannot be done. We see where that statement is today.

The Cybertruck is already in production with said to be over 100 built. Cannot be there without passing all the DOT/NHTSA regs.

Sure but it’s still ugly, obnoxious and just plain dumb…..

 

[Whataboykie!]

Well it will be very safe for the driver, but deadly to anyone they hit, person or car. lol

That's really all that matters! LOL.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I'm not sure, but I don't think you need to have the crash tests performed prior to selling a vehicle? Didn't Rivian sell vehicles before they were crash tested?

Rivian did internal crash testing, same as Tesla has done. Rivian actually shared useful footage .

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-crash-test-video-photos-analysis.1111/

Compare to what Tesla has shared so far.

 

[daeHelkcunK]

“The Cybertruck is a low polygon joke that only exists in the fever dreams of Tesla fans that stands high on the smell of Elon Musk’s flatulences.”

This.

We can only hope that the Cybertruck bombs and becomes such an financial drag on Tesla that they are forced to spin off the Supercharging network.

Get that essential piece of charging infrastructure out of the hands of that erratic, ticking time bomb, Elon Musk.

Please keep your person politically motivated views of Elon out of the forum. This is about Rivian.

 

[COdogman]

Any you insinuating that FSD is unsafe? I’m what ways? Please be specific in # of deaths caused by FSD v driver error.

I'm not insinuating it - it is fundamentally unsafe. Sorry if my initial comment did not make that clear enough to you.

Let's start with the names "autopilot" and "full self driving". Tesla's own disclaimer says the following:

​

the currently enabled features do not make the vehicle autonomous

Contrast that with Rivian's choice to name their version DRIVER+, Tesla has deliberately named their program something that implies the car and system does all the work. For this reason they are no longer allowed to call it "full self driving" in CA anymore.
california-bans-tesla-from-calling-software-full-self-driving

Tesla is facing a class action lawsuit by FSD customers who claim it doesn't work as advertised. Tesla's lawyers argued in court that it wasn't fraud, but failure - an admission that it doesn't work as advertised, but splitting hairs on the reason why.

Musk's own stated figures would indicate it is approximately 10 times more dangerous than a human driver:

Yet if Musk’s own data about the usage of FSD are at all accurate, this cannot possibly be true. Back in April, he claimed that there have been 150 million miles driven with FSD on an investor call, a reasonable figure given that would be just 375 miles for each of the 400,000 cars with the technology. Assuming that all these crashes involved FSD—a plausible guess given that FSD has been dramatically expanded over the last year, and two-thirds of the crashes in the data have happened during that time—that implies a fatal accident rate of 11.3 deaths per 100 million miles traveled. The overall fatal accident rate for auto travel, according to NHTSA, was 1.35 deaths per 100 million miles traveled in 2022.

In other words, Tesla’s FSD system is likely on the order of ten times more dangerous at driving than humans.
2023-06-14-elon-musk-tesla-self-driving-bloodbath

Tests showed that a Tesla using FSD would strike a child sized mannequin 3 out of 5 times. And don't tell me the test was faked because the raw footage was released showing it wasn't.
controversy-erupts-over-video-of-fsd-tesla-striking-child-mannequin

There are countless videos of FSD not working properly, which to be clear is unsafe and could be deadly if the driver does not take control quickly enough. Here is a fun recent one where Musk was driving and it tried to accelerate through a red light. Very safe though!

Twenty minutes into the journey, the self-driving car lurched forward into an intersection and attempted to run a red light. “Ohhh, intervention!” Musk can be heard saying. The phrase is a reference to anytime a driver has to take control from a self-driving system. “Sorry,” he said, and then laughed.

The CEO who was also recording the entire drive on his phone (also unsafe) said he was "sorry" and later babbled about feeding the system more "images" of red light intersections I know that makes me feel much safer - knowing the only thing keeping 400,000 Teslas with FSD installed and might be using it at an intersection is the driver intervening quickly enough. So safe!

I can keep going if you need more examples.

 

[COdogman]

Please keep your person politically motivated views of Elon out of the forum. This is about Rivian.

What was political about the post? Be specific.

 

[mkg3]

Cybertruck is NOT in production. It's in pre-production. There's a HUGE difference, those of us who work in manufacturing startup disciplines know the difference. It's pre-production for precisely the reason you cite incorrectly. Vehicles are initially built without passing IIHS/DOT/NHTSA standards. That's EXACTLY how it is done. Pre-production vehicles are submitted for testing. You can't get IIHS/DOT/NHTSA approval without doing this. You won't see true CT production for general public consumer deliveries until 2024.

Yeah you're right. I misspoke by saying in production. What I'd meant was is being produced already in pre-production. Does not change my point though.

As for crash testing, looks like its going on currently.

https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1...ks like the Tesla,where they could be heading.

Its the DOT/NHTSA test that matter, not IIHS (private, non-profit org that rates for consumers and studies - nothing to do with certification).

Sorry for the sloppiness. Deliveries will occur soon (2023) and I can't wait to see it all over the roads over the next year.

Personally, I like the look - its different - but I am not, and will not ever buy a truck of any make. I don't have any needs or want one.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I have been curious about the crash testing. I'm no engineer, but if the exterior is as durable (stiff) as Elon claims, it likely would not pass those tests. so that could mean Elon is lying again (likely), or he demanded it be designed in a way that will cause problems passing the tests (also likely).

It's hard to imagine they would get this far with it without knowing for sure, but if he's sending out emails demanding "sub 10 micron" tolerances at this stage of the game anything is possible I guess.

Impossible to talk about Tesla culture without pointing to politics as point of reference… It got this far because the company and the cult of personality are now one and the same. We’ve seen it on the national political stage and in other nations too, where the persona of one individual become the hive mind. Lucky for Tesla, they have the market share and sane products to offset this excursion. It won’t bring them down. But the man himself might; see Twitter/X.

 

[COdogman]

Impossible to talk about Tesla culture without pointing to politics as point of reference… It got this far because the company and the cult of personality are one and the same. We’ve seen it on the national stage and in other nations too, where the persona of one individual become the hive mind.

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree at all. Although I find it rather easy to talk about Tesla and Musk without mentioning politics because all you need to do is focus on the lies he tells about his own products. I mean there are so many unforced errors coming from him....

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Rivian did internal crash testing, same as Tesla has done. Rivian actually shared useful footage .

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-crash-test-video-photos-analysis.1111/

Compare to what Tesla has shared so far.

The failure to show anything speaks to the results as much as posting them would. There's no reason for such a cryptic video of a crash test that doesn't show the actual test except the test didn't go well. That's the only reason to not show it at this point from a PR perspective. They didn't want crash experts analyzing it and giving unfavorable opinions and it must be bad enough to be easily apparent from an outside view of the crash.

Impossible to talk about Tesla culture without pointing to politics as point of reference… It got this far because the company and the cult of personality are now one and the same. We’ve seen it on the national political stage and in other nations too, where the persona of one individual become the hive mind. Lucky for Tesla, they have the market share and sane products to offset this excursion. It won’t bring them down. But the man himself might; see Twitter/X.

Keep politics the fuck out of here. If you can't talk about Elon or Tesla without getting political don't talk about them. Political discussion is banned here and I do not want to read your political opinions. Take that shit to the CNN forum.

 

[dleepnw]

i dont like Tesla as a brand and like the CEO even less but we need to get over it. the CT is happening whether we like it or not.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Fast Company:

"As Adrian Clarke—a professional car designer who now writes design critiques for the automobile publication The Autopian—told me back then: “The Cybertruck is a low polygon joke that only exists in the fever dreams of Tesla fans that stands high on the smell of Elon Musk’s flatulences.”

“As soon as we saw [the Cybertruck], everyone I know in the industry started laughing. We just thought there is no way they’re gonna be able to get that into production.” There’s no way, he assures me, because it’s not going to pass crash regulations, it’s not going pass pedestrian impact regulations, and, more importantly, it’s going to be extremely hard to make those “those dead straight panels.”

It’s yet to be seen if the changes in the frame and fake exoskeleton were caused by other potential manufacturing problems predicted by Clarke, like the reverberation of sound. “[All those dead flat panels are] going to vibrate and they’re going to have massive problems stamping those panels and having them keep their shape,” he told me at the time. “This will force Tesla to use “some kind of foam or sound deadening.”

“…cold, sterile, and repulsive.” ?

 

[Blueassassin]

Are we sure the Cyber truck isn't like a long drawn out April fools joke? I'm still not buying it. At some point I'm ready for the "gotcha"

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Keep politics the fuck out of here. If you can't talk about Elon or Tesla without getting political don't talk about them. Political discussion is banned here and I do not want to read your political opinions. Take that shit to the CNN forum.

You need to check yourself. What you have written is not civil. My point was not about political debate or rhetoric, but to illustrate a point about cult of personality and what it does to groups, companies and civilizations… how seemingly nonsensical idea from one person, like the CT, can become normalized and carried far beyond just a crazy idea.

Sponsored