Lack of Crawl Control Off-roading Leads to Battle Scars

[SeattleSteve]

I've read about--and have seen the videos--Rivian's lack of slow speed crawl control. Today was the first time that I've encountered off-roading situations wherein the Rivian four motor strategy had me experiencing real challenge.

For those in the Puget Sound region, this trip was at the Reiter Pit ORV area. The trail photo below was one of many obstacles that were rough. That Jeep Rubicon handled everything with ease, being able to lock front and rear axles and, importantly, tackle obstacles with precise control.

To clear these obstacles, I had apply rapid and aggressive accelerator pedal input. Then, once the R1T made it up obstacles, the moments that followed were with an out-of-control 7000 lb. truck sorting itself out/me trying to brake and steer to regain control. The result was damage to the truck.

I wish, wish, wish that Rivian would program the Off-Road Rock Crawl setting to make the Rivian R1T and R1S perform like a Jeep. Then again, maybe that's not possible with our Quad Motor drivetrain.

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[zefram47]

Yup. No reason on earth we shouldn't have low speed throttle control equal to a torque-converter automatic transmission with low-range. I'm appalled at how bad the R1T is on the rocks right now and really hope they improve things. I never cared for crawl control on my 4Runner and rarely used the rear locker, but getting a linear increase in torque as you press the throttle is simple and expected behavior. The fact that you can slowly press the throttle in the Rivian to the floor and the truck just doesn't do anything at all is ludicrous. Like you said, all you can do is aggressively blip the throttle to get it to deliver proper torque....but then you're essentially uncontrolled in a likely precarious situation. In my case, I was teetering on two wheels with a third on a rock and the fourth in loose dirt. I fully expected that wheel on the rock to use the available grip and pull me up. It didn't.

 

[jimmyb2]

In your underside pic it looks like panels are missing/removed. Is that right? Were they broken off due to the rocks, or did you remove them?

Your vehicle info shows you have the reinforced underbody shield. What is it made of? From the pic it looks as though it consists of many pieces rather than being one (or two) large piece(s) covering the entire underbody. Is that correct?

Actually, it almost looks the same as underbody pics I have seen of vehicles WITHOUT the reinforced underbody shield.

I am very surprised that the Rivian does not have slow speed crawl control. With electric motors that should be extremely easy to do. Precise speed control at all speeds from minimum to maximum speed is common in all kinds of industrial manufacturing scenarios; so it isn't something new. They should be able to accomplish even more precise control than is done with ICE vehicles.

 

[HaveBlue]

The rivian is an impressive all wheel drive vehicle like a quattro or Subaru but won't be able keep up with a 4wd that can lock wheel speeds together. I've tried all these scenarios in my gx which has all wheel drive mode with traction control both vsc and atrac, center locked and then rear locked plus atrac as well. My previous 4runner was locked front and rear.

The rivian will do great right up until you get in real rocks and then you'll start breaking stuff like body panels and steering racks. Best you can do is air down a lot and not use the highest suspension setting so you retain articulation droop.

 

[Dark-Fx]

In your underside pic it looks like panels are missing/removed. Is that right? Were they broken off due to the rocks, or did you remove them?

Your vehicle info shows you have the reinforced underbody shield. What is it made of? From the pic it looks as though it consists of many pieces rather than being one (or two) large piece(s) covering the entire underbody. Is that correct?

Actually, it almost looks the same as underbody pics I have seen of vehicles WITHOUT the reinforced underbody shield.

I am very surprised that the Rivian does not have slow speed crawl control. With electric motors that should be extremely easy to do. Precise speed control at all speeds from minimum to maximum speed is common in all kinds of industrial manufacturing scenarios; so it isn't something new. They should be able to accomplish even more precise control than is done with ICE vehicles.

Underbody shield doesn't protect the rockers, only the drivetrain and battery.

But yeah, I'm not sure this vehicle has it. Mind have what looks like an additional corrugated core between the bottom and the battery.

 

[Krusty]

I've read about--and have seen the videos--Rivian's lack of slow speed crawl control. Today was the first time that I've encountered off-roading situations wherein the Rivian four motor strategy had me experiencing real challenge.

For those in the Puget Sound region, this trip was at the Reiter Pit ORV area. The trail photo below was one of many obstacles that were rough. That Jeep Rubicon handled everything with ease, being able to lock front and rear axles and, importantly, tackle obstacles with precise control.

To clear these obstacles, I had apply rapid and aggressive accelerator pedal input. Then, once the R1T made it up obstacles, the moments that followed were with an out-of-control 7000 lb. truck sorting itself out/me trying to brake and steer to regain control. The result was damage to the truck.

I wish, wish, wish that Rivian would program the Off-Road Rock Crawl setting to make the Rivian R1T and R1S perform like a Jeep. Then again, maybe that's not possible with our Quad Motor drivetrain.

They're working on it. Electric motors have a hard time with situations where the motor isn't moving and is "stuck".

https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-patents-bolt-on-low-range-crawler-gearbox-for-off-road-evs

 

[EVLander]

This is exactly what AJ @Dirtcom_AJ and I found while testing the different drive modes and its reaction to user input. Check out the video here

 

[SeattleSteve]

In your underside pic it looks like panels are missing/removed. Is that right? Were they broken off due to the rocks, or did you remove them?

Your vehicle info shows you have the reinforced underbody shield. What is it made of? From the pic it looks as though it consists of many pieces rather than being one (or two) large piece(s) covering the entire underbody. Is that correct?

Actually, it almost looks the same as underbody pics I have seen of vehicles WITHOUT the reinforced underbody shield.

I am very surprised that the Rivian does not have slow speed crawl control. With electric motors that should be extremely easy to do. Precise speed control at all speeds from minimum to maximum speed is common in all kinds of industrial manufacturing scenarios; so it isn't something new. They should be able to accomplish even more precise control than is done with ICE vehicles.

Do have the underbody shield, however there's plastic 360° around that shield: rocker panels, front/rear "skid plates" all plastic.

The missing plastic from the rocker panel sheered off on one of the OMG moments of uncontrolled rock hopping.

 

[zefram47]

They're working on it. Electric motors have a hard time with situations where the motor isn't moving and is "stuck".

But they aren't "stuck" as you put it. As both I and the OP said, if you punch the throttle the truck will move...but it results in uncontrolled motion which can lead to a bad day as the OP found.

 

[Krusty]

But they aren't "stuck" as you put it. As both I and the OP said, if you punch the throttle the truck will move...but it results in uncontrolled motion which can lead to a bad day as the OP found.

Basically, the motors "stall" in these situations until a high amount of current is sent to the motors. Once the "stuck" situation is resolved and motors start spinning, the motors quickly overcome the resistance and transition to a low resistance scenario leading to the truck losing control. By putting a reduction gear or even a torque converter in the driveline allows the motor to spin and apply torque in a controlled way. In theory, electric motors can apply 100% torque at 0 rpm, but that isn't how they work in practice. It also helps with overheating and driveline stress.

 

[jimmyb2]

Do have the underbody shield, however there's plastic 360° around that shield: rocker panels, front/rear "skid plates" all plastic.

The missing plastic from the rocker panel sheered off on one of the OMG moments of uncontrolled rock hopping.

I am not sure I understand the underbody shield. From day one I have assumed (I know what that makes me) that the "reinforced" underbody shield would be steel or some other metal. Is it in fact metal, or is it plastic or some combination of the two.

Also, what brand are your rock sliders? Are you satisfied with them?

 

[av8or]

I haven’t been in a slow rock crawl situation in the Rivian yet, but I have noticed while off-road the truck accepts 2 foot driving pretty well (accelerator and brake same time). Just wondering if the OP tried this? It’s an excellent way for low speed control in my wrangler.
The other point that was made about the amount of plastic that is essentially all low hanging fruit when off-roading was a poor choice for an adventure vehicle. It’s what will keep me from the hard stuff.

 

[SeattleSteve]

I am not sure I understand the underbody shield. From day one I have assumed (I know what that makes me) that the "reinforced" underbody shield would be steel or some other metal. Is it in fact metal, or is it plastic or some combination of the two.

Also, what brand are your rock sliders? Are you satisfied with them?

No rock sliders on my R1T yet. With that being said, I think the DCE sliders would've done best in my situation. Actually, I think that the DCE sliders would've prevented 100% of the damage.

 

[SeattleSteve]

I haven’t been in a slow rock crawl situation in the Rivian yet, but I have noticed while off-road the truck accepts 2 foot driving pretty well (accelerator and brake same time). Just wondering if the OP tried this? It’s an excellent way for low speed control in my wrangler.
The other point that was made about the amount of plastic that is essentially all low hanging fruit when off-roading was a poor choice for an adventure vehicle. It’s what will keep me from the hard stuff.

Over the past week of replaying the situations in my head, I wish that I would've tried two foot/pedal driving. I think that it would have made a positive difference.

 

[SeattleSteve]

I received the estimate to fix the damage. This is just for the various plastic trim pieces (a total of 10 plastic trim pieces were damaged): Parts $1,367 + 7 hours of labor.

I'm going to have everything fixed, however, I have mixed feelings about the Rivian repair process. From what I have figured, Rivian will not let me purchase the plastic trim pieces to simply do the work myself. This would be a preferred outcome as I could simply replace the plastic trim pieces that are most noticeable.

For Rivian owners that are pushing their R1Ts and R1Ss off-road, a munched up truck of broken plastic trim pieces, or broken bank account, are seemingly inevitable. I enjoy following Jheryl Williams (@ev_lander.r1t on Instagram), and he seems to be pushing the envelope in his R1T. I bet he's broken his share of plastic--it'd be interesting to hear if he's figured out a way to source the parts for D.Y.I.

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