R1S Review: "The Tesla Bronco Defender" -- Throttle House

[kvenom]

The best part of this review pretty much highlight why I am holding onto it is,

'If you got it for 70 grand you are laughing'

Rivian are going to delay the shit out of our orders given the terrible Forex rate until we decide to cancel. I can see it now.

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[Count Orlok]

other than bad panel gaps, what is tesla about the R1S?

 

[DJG]

The CarPlay thing is real. I didn't think it would be. I thought I'd be fine, as I have other non-Carplay cars and I would just deal, but it turns out, for a new, $90K vehicle, this is a big gap. We have two trucks in my garage. They are both awesome. One is an SUV with more room, more off road capability, an ICE, and CarPlay with screens that are nearly as nice and responsive as the Rivian. The other is the R1T. The CarPlay just works in the Braptor and is sooooo much nicer to use, trustworthy, full featured, and easier to navigate with my phone for all the things I like to do while driving. I'm learning how to try to get by with the R1T, but it's such a Busch League experience in comparison. It's borderline awful. Is it licensing? Is it money? What's the deal? RJ read the room. Do what you do well, well, and outsource what you suck at. Differentiate yourself from the Tesla (who is quite good now) and Lucid.

Quite simply, they aren't making the vehicle for people who think CP is the best way and they are comfortable enough with themselves to not have their business (largely because they couldn't service that business anyway so there's little point attracting it. Imagine how long the already unbearable wait times would be if they offered it and the reported 97% of people who demand it were now potential customers). You can't serve the entire market, especially as a capacity constrained upstart.

They are also thinking long term, about the inevitable day when Apple/Google cease to support CP/AA and give automakers the ultimatum to license their integrated systems. CP/AA were never the end game, they were a bridge (Trojan Horse really). Most have already signed on for Android Automotive, so AA's days are all but numbered. Software will far and away be the number one way to differentiate your product going forward, so it's unthinkable to not strive to set yourself apart there and carve your own niche. It may mean playing from behind early on, but it's the winning long term strategy. They want to make their own vehicles, not manufacture them for Apple/Google, which is where several others are on a path towards. One or more will ultimately end up just being acquired by them (squarely in line with Apple's ethos to integrate hardware/software) for their manufacturing expertise after they've lost all of their brand equity. Then as there become fewer and fewer brands, the value of Rivian and Tesla's brand that they've maintained and nurtured will grow when they are the only options remaining to buy something that isn't an Apple/Google car that 90% of the world drives and people look around and wonder how the auto industry suddenly feels like the Soviet Union with little choice and ability to express individuality (one of the main reasons people buy the car they buy in the US).

Just look at the phone industry for the roadmap. That story may also just say that Rivian has no chance and they should just bend over now and get it over with, but I respect them for saying no thanks we're going to give it a go. Worst case scenario is they end up in the same place, so they have nothing to lose and several years to try before it gets real.

 

[kvenom]

other than bad panel gaps, what is tesla about the R1S?

Vent controls, steering/mirror adjustments, Gear stalk with double tap for DA activation, gear guard etc...

 

[frostbit3]

I'm also glad they argued for having the steering wheel controls to move the mirrors and steering wheel. Yes, I absolutely hate it and it's not intuitive and is a pain in the ass to have to use. I thought it was going to be a pain point for me but It's never been an issue because I set it one time, and then it's done. I haven't had to adjust it at all in the 6 months I've had my truck and it's a non issue.

 

[astonius]

Great point. That’s probably 10% of what I do with my phone in my car, but that would be a very important 10%. On local roads I’d not be looking to replace Waze with charging / Rivian Maps or vice versa. Waze is just worlds better, and they have police … this truck is FAST! Knowing where our local constables are hanging out has a lot of value…

SMS / iMessage / Siri is worlds better and safer. Calling is easier (at leas for me).

An app for Audible vs having to launch looking down at my phone (illegal here in Mass) is so much better.

Listening to Podcasts … the same thing.

Apple Music. Ditto.

I could go on.

I suppose I could just not do these things, and that would be safer or maybe just listen to some FM radio, but all in all, this is a fail. I didn’t want it to be, but dang, it is.

I am hopeful Rivian can fix the seven service issues I have waiting on my first visit to the SC, but sadly this is one I think they’ll never fix. Missing greatness over table stakes that are included in $30K entry level CUVs. Such a fail.

It's been covered ad nauseam in many other threads, but as this forum's leading advocate for CarPlay let me provide some bullet points:

• The hardware is present to support CarPlay.
• The underlying OS (QNX/Android Automotive hybrid) supports CarPlay.
• There are no licensing fees for CarPlay.
• The work required to implement is trivial. It's essentially some API hooks and a bit of UI work to define ingress/egress and the screen space. Certainly more straightforward than developing an entirely dedicated Spotify or Tidal app.
• Rivian claims its absence predicates building a better experience. Clearly this is not the case so far as the experience is worse. It's also an entirely optional feature that would easily slot into the existing "app" space. This is likely marketing speak for "we want you to pay for data to use your infotainment."
• Rivian's official position is "it's not on our roadmap." They also frequently ignore questions on Reddit regarding CarPlay. They have never said flat-out it's never coming. This tells me we should keep the pressure on them to add it. I tell them every chance I get it's a safety issue as I am using my phone while driving, something I didn't do with my previous CarPlay-enabled vehicles.

 

[Biturbowned]

Actually ABRP knows my truck better than the R1T does. I've done a few 500+ mile road trips using ABRP via CarPlay on a screen I installed and ABRP was 100% accurate the entire way, where the Rivian's nav was all over the board on if I'd make it, how much I would have when I got there, etc. It also was adamant I wasn't going to make it one time until I got within 50 miles of it, whereas ABRP the entire way was within 1% of what the R1T was actually at.

Fair, but ABRP can’t pre-condition the battery for optimal charging I don’t think? I know the jury may still be out on whether pre-conditioning actually helps in the R1 vehicles for some of the thermal limiting issues, but that’s a different issue. The other comments RE: text messaging/music/podcast/etc are all valid.

 

[rraj2k81]

Rivian are going to delay the shit out of our orders given the terrible Forex rate until we decide to cancel. I can see it now.

Don't give them any ideas.

But, yeah I do believe they are dragging their feet in delivering orders here for the pre-March orders, considering the forex rate right now.

 

[DaveA]

It's been covered ad nauseam in many other threads, but as this forum's leading advocate for CarPlay let me provide some bullet points:

• The hardware is present to support CarPlay.
• The underlying OS (QNX/Android Automotive hybrid) supports CarPlay.
• There are no licensing fees for CarPlay.
• The work required to implement is trivial. It's essentially some API hooks and a bit of UI work to define ingress/egress and the screen space. Certainly more straightforward than developing an entirely dedicated Spotify or Tidal app.
• Rivian claims it's absence predicates building a better experience. Clearly this is not the case so far as the experience is worse. It's also an entirely optional feature that would easily slot into the existing "app" space. This is likely marketing speak for "we want you to pay for data to use your infotainment."
• Rivian's official position is "it's not on our roadmap." They also frequently ignore questions on Reddit regarding CarPlay. They have never said flat-out it's never coming. This tells me we should keep the pressure on them to add it. I tell them every chance I get it's a safety issue as I am using my phone while driving, something I didn't do with my previous CarPlay-enabled vehicles.

I think its a great money maker for them....offer it to those that want it for several hundo a year. Done.

 

[OverZealous]

Fair, but ABRP can’t pre-condition the battery for optimal charging I don’t think? I know the jury may still be out on whether pre-conditioning actually helps in the R1 vehicles for some of the thermal limiting issues, but that’s a different issue. The other comments RE: text messaging/music/podcast/etc are all valid.

Also been mentioned before, but CarPlay, at least, already supports feeding the vehicle battery levels into it, which would allow for using mapping of your choice to navigate through chargers easily.

That being said, it's entirely optional. I don't know why everyone is so against more options. Adding CarPlay and AA support just means another option for those who want it. The existing map experience doesn't go away. It doesn't get reduced priority. In fact, it pressures them more to provide a better experience if they really want to capture that map/driving data.

As of right now, on the 400-mile (each way) trip we just took, the experience was so bad I could not recommend a Rivian to anyone who hasn't already had experience road-tripping in an EV. I would (shudder) have to recommend a Tesla, just because of the routing (even ignoring the charger network issues). I literally don't think I would have made it to our destination if I had relied solely on Rivian's mapping and not known about ABRP & PlugShare.

 

[DaveA]

I like that they pointed out the wind noise....first time I've heard reviewers call that out...seems to me if Rivian is giving out review units with wind noise, then, well....maybe it is "within spec".

 

[SANZC02]

This is new, I was beginning to wonder if there was ever going to be a thread about CarPlay/AA on this forum….

 

[DJG]

Great point. That’s probably 10% of what I do with my phone in my car, but that would be a very important 10%. On local roads I’d not be looking to replace Waze with charging / Rivian Maps or vice versa. Waze is just worlds better, and they have police … this truck is FAST! Knowing where our local constables are hanging out has a lot of value…

SMS / iMessage / Siri is worlds better and safer. Calling is easier (at leas for me).

An app for Audible vs having to launch looking down at my phone (illegal here in Mass) is so much better.

Listening to Podcasts … the same thing.

Apple Music. Ditto.

I could go on.

I suppose I could just not do these things, and that would be safer or maybe just listen to some FM radio, but all in all, this is a fail. I didn’t want it to be, but dang, it is.

I am hopeful Rivian can fix the seven service issues I have waiting on my first visit to the SC, but sadly this is one I think they’ll never fix. Missing greatness over table stakes that are included in $30K entry level CUVs. Such a fail.

None of those things require CP/AA to implement (only required to add them quickly/immediately and all at once). So that's not a winning argument if you're Rivian, they'll just add them to the list of things to implement in their own system. It's also a losing argument to suggest Rivian add the same user experience found in a $30k entry level vehicle, especially given the first point. It's tone deaf to their philosophy and core ethos as a business, and it's calling game to look at the score when it's the first inning of a 1,000 inning game. You don't have to like where it is today, and Rivian understands that there are always future opportunities to win your business if they can't do it today. No one buys a single vehicle in their life, so all of the threats of people not buying the vehicle without a feature means little to them, because they'll have several more opportunities to make a sale to that same person. The only thing that matters is keeping the factory running at capacity in a manufacturing business and that is a very low threshold volume to meet right now.

They started the business and sold investors on the business plan that they would be a software focused, integrated company that did things differently in a stale industry desperately in need of it. That's what attracted capital as much as anything else. If the pitch was that they were going to outsource the UI/UX like everyone else, investors would just say, eh too risky I'll just invest in Toyota. It also completely changes the story of the business, and then it's just a simple exercise of needing to manufacture more cars than the next guy, at thinner and thinner margins, to be worth more. That's not an exciting business to be in and get behind.

 

[MadMac]

They weren’t criticizing high speed on-road handling while using all terrain tires, were they? Oh wait…
They’re funny —but between not acknowledging the tires and the four press (when it only takes one) steering wheel adjustment, they’re hard to take seriously.

 

[computertom]

Quite simply, they aren't making the vehicle for people who think CP is the best way and they are comfortable enough with themselves to not have their business (largely because they couldn't service that business anyway so there's little point attracting it. Imagine how long the already unbearable wait times would be if they offered it and the reported 97% of people who demand it were now potential customers). You can't serve the entire market, especially as a capacity constrained upstart.

They are also thinking long term, about the inevitable day when Apple/Google cease to support CP/AA and give automakers the ultimatum to license their integrated systems. CP/AA were never the end game, they were a bridge (Trojan Horse really). Most have already signed on for Android Automotive, so AA's days are all but numbered. Software will far and away be the number one way to differentiate your product going forward, so it's unthinkable to not strive to set yourself apart there and carve your own niche. It may mean playing from behind early on, but it's the winning long term strategy. They want to make their own vehicles, not manufacture them for Apple/Google, which is where several others are on a path towards. One or more will ultimately end up just being acquired by them (squarely in line with Apple's ethos to integrate hardware/software) for their manufacturing expertise after they've lost all of their brand equity. Then as there become fewer and fewer brands, the value of Rivian and Tesla's brand that they've maintained and nurtured will grow when they are the only options remaining to buy something that isn't an Apple/Google car that 90% of the world drives and people look around and wonder how the auto industry suddenly feels like the Soviet Union with little choice and ability to express individuality (one of the main reasons people buy the car they buy in the US).

Just look at the phone industry for the roadmap. That story may also just say that Rivian has no chance and they should just bend over now and get it over with, but I respect them for saying no thanks we're going to give it a go. Worst case scenario is they end up in the same place, so they have nothing to lose and several years to try before it gets real.

Really appreciate this long term, strategic view. I was definitely not seeing it from the driver’s seat of my R1T or the BRaptor. Great zoom out.

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