Why no Trailseeker/R2 comparisons?

[mkg3]

As a last generation Outback owner, I find the new Outback a mistake. The sales have dropped and if I wanted a Subaru SUV, there already was the Forester (I know its bit smaller), or Ascent. What make Outback unique was the wagon aspect, just as Volvo V60 was and Audi A6 Alltrack (now coming back).

If I was looking for an EV from Subaru, it would not be one one the plastic cladded Toyota variant. If that's what I wanted, I would either just get a Toyota or Lexsus version.

Sponsored

 

[Yamazaki]

It really is. If they had released a viable Crosstrek or Forester equivalent, but as a quality EV, I would 100% already own one. The current crop of rebranded Toyota EVs isn't good enough for me to switch. I'm all in on Rivian now.

That's kind of where I am right now. I've been a Subaru fanboy for a long time now, but I really want to cross to the EV world and Subaru's offerings haven't been strong. The only things that are giving me pause on the R2 are little quality-of-life things that my 4'10" wife has come across.

1) She has to jump to hit the close button on the rear hatch for the R2 since the height can't be programmed, but the Trailseeker has a foot-triggered sensor underneath and probably can program the height (will test that tomorrow).

2) Even with the seat all the way forward and up, her feet barely touch the pedals in the R2. If we get one, I will have to modify it so that she can sit securely in the seat. I don't expect the Trailseeker to have that issue since none of our current or previous Subarus have ever had that problem.

3) We don't have CarPlay, but she uses her phone for everything - navigation, audio, etc and I listen to FM radio exclusively. There are already threads on this and the Trailseeker doesn't have this problem.

4) She doesn't like that there are no grab handles in the R2. When we go off-road, she gets tossed around a lot and holds onto the grab handles for dear life. She's not sure what will happen in the R2.

5) Reliability. I expect the R2 to be better than what I've read about the R1, but I'm doubting the R2 will get to 280,000 miles like my '04 Forester. If the work is mechanical, I'm able to do a limited amount, but we'll see how easy a car that puts the battery under the seat is to work on...

 

[KBabione]

That's a gripe I have about buying a car in the US - Dealerships. I hate that sales model. They are not incentivized to sell EVs, so they don't even try. When I took my Forester in for a recall service earlier this year, I asked for a Solterra as a loaner car. They said "sure, but why would you want that?" It's true it wasn't super amazing, but why would you talk crap about your own car?

I too hate the dealership model. Your quote made me laugh - When our Outback was in for a major service and it would be all day I asked if they had a Solterra loaner. They did, but it took them 20 minutes to find the key because it's just been sitting there for weeks! This was about two years ago and I was hoping to talk the family into getting one as a bridge until we got the R2. They thought it was cheap looking - both inside and out so I was vetoed. It was a nice way to get a test drive without a sales person following up though.

 

[CharonPDX]

"similar ground clearance"??? Look at the chin spoiler of the Subby, now compare that to the R2, not even close.

Far closer to R2 than any other similar-market EV.

8.3 inches clearance.

No, it's no R2, and definitely no R1S, but it's way more of an offroad vehicle than pretty much any other non-Rivian EV wagon/SUV. (Barring the absolutely ridiculously priced things like the Mercedes G-wagen.) Which makes it a fair comparison. It's the most offroady R2 competitor.

 

[jrmbadger]

The 2026 Subaru/Toyota EVs are markedly better than the previous year. They used to be trash, now they're entirely adequate.

I stand by my earlier criticisms of Toyota. Just watched this Trailseeker Review and while they seem to be moving in the right direction at 8:18 he mentions that there is NO route planner on the navigation to plan charging stops. Yikes.

 

[DuoRivian]

I stand by my earlier criticisms of Toyota. Just watched this Trailseeker Review and while they seem to be moving in the right direction at 8:18 he mentions that there is NO route planner on the navigation to plan charging stops. Yikes.

Yes the software has gaps (the route planned will be there by year end for the Highlander) and there are some other issues but fundamentally a good driving car that is efficient (3.7+ miles/kWh), well priced, light (4500lb) and spacious.

 

[LevelHeaded]

Calling any Subaru an off-roader is laughable

as has been established, the R2 is approximately equivalent to a Subaru in terms of capability, so that’s why the Subaru comparison is common.

 

[nejdumont]

Current owner of a 2017 Subaru Outback. 2nd Outback we’ve owned. I love the form factor of it. I can haul about 90% of what I need to haul in it. It can tow my teardrop trailer. Where I’ve gotten sour on them (and many SUV’s of the same size) is not offering a 7-pin connector for trailers. Everyone says it’s best to have breaks when the trailer is over 1000 pounds, yet no 7-pin is available. Subaru dealers actually just REFUSE to install one on the Outback. So the fact that R2 is basically the same size as my Outback, comes with factory installed 7-pin, can haul all the things I need, and that sweet back window for my dogs, I’m sold. We have been wanting an electric car for some time, and R2 is the first one to come along that just ticks all the boxes for us. Now if my invite would just come….

 

[TexasBob]

I think it is in a different range class. I just cannot even imagine buying a 270-280 mile range vehicle. I would be hating on myself weekly. The 330 is a bare minimum.

 

[Yamazaki]

Where I’ve gotten sour on them (and many SUV’s of the same size) is not offering a 7-pin connector for trailers. Everyone says it’s best to have breaks when the trailer is over 1000 pounds, yet no 7-pin is available. Subaru dealers actually just REFUSE to install one on the Outback.

When I read this I thought "Wait, the Forester has one..", so I went out to the garage to double check... lo and behold, it's just a 4-pin connector. Huh. I had no idea.

I think it is in a different range class. I just cannot even imagine buying a 270-280 mile range vehicle. I would be hating on myself weekly. The 330 is a bare minimum.

To be fair, the R2 range with the 20" Black Sand wheels is only 307. That isn't a tremendous amount more than the Trailseeker's range... but yeah, I take your point. Not only does the Trailseeker have less range, it also charges more slowly. Those two things are what are really giving me pause on the Subaru. I said earlier in the thread that if the Trailseeker had better range, then I'd figure out a way to get over my distaste for its wagon styling.

 

[usulio]

Ground clearance is just one part. R2 approach angle is 25 degrees and Trailseeker is less than 18. R2 will go pretty much anywhere a standard stock 4runner will go -- better ground clearance and better angles (except breakover). Trailseeker's nose will not get over small obstacles.

Rivian will keep improving the traction control system with OTA updates.

Now if we are going to complain about limitations of independent suspension and non-locking diffs, that's getting into offroading well above the pay grade of both vehicles, it's apples and oranges. If you can put a 3" lift on R2 and bigger tires then you start getting into that realm of capability, but my bet is Rivian engineering will make that level of mod difficult.

 

[DuoRivian]

I think it is in a different range class. I just cannot even imagine buying a 270-280 mile range vehicle. I would be hating on myself weekly. The 330 is a bare minimum.

I would like more range but when Rivian sell an R1 with similar range (or less depending on tires) and the R2 RWD will be in their 270-280 range then Toyota/Subaru can’t be criticized too much, especially as it is AWD.
They have efficiency down (c. 3.7 miles /kWh) and I do like its lighter and hence better handling.

 

[usulio]

Other than a bit of extra ground clearance and available knobbier tires, the R2 has nothing that makes it particularly better at off-roading than any other dual-motor EV.

The marketing would have you believe it’s similar to a 4Runner or Wrangler in capability, but it’s closer to an “Adventure” trim of any crossover on the market. Look at the few tests of it off-road that have been done.

Marketing is a hell of a drug!

That being said, it’s has more capability than 99% of the buying public needs (as do any of those other soft-road trim CUVs), and that’s all that matters.

https://www.theautopian.com/the-lon...h-review-of-the-rivian-r2-you-will-ever-read/

Scroll to the “off-roading” section. Mediocre capability at best. The only thing enabling it is slightly more ground clearance than most competition. But the suspension, traction control, and geometry are nothing noteworthy.

I agree with this except for the geometry. Almost all EVs have much worse angles. Your article sums it up well

> for most folks who want a vehicle with Subaru Wilderness/Jeep Cherokee-levels of capability, the Rivian definitely delivers, while also offering decent on-road range. It’s pretty much the only vehicle in the space that can do both.

 

[NinjaWrap]

but is it $10K worth better?

I definitely think so. It would take a LOT for me to consider buying a car from a legacy automaker again. Software is very important to me.

 

[DuoRivian]

I definitely think so. It would take a LOT for me to consider buying a car from a legacy automaker again. Software is very important to me.

I agree the Rivian software is worth a premium.

Sponsored